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SNCF Class Z 50000

The SNCF Class Z 50000, also known as the 'Francilian', or 'NAT' (for French: Nouvelle Automotrice Transilien, English: New Rail car Transilien, the project name) is a type of dual-voltage electric multiple unit trainset designed in the 2000s. It is commuter rail system serving Paris and its Île-de-France suburbs on the Transilien network. Departing stations are Gare du Nord, Gare de l'Est and Gare Saint-Lazare.

Z 50000
A pair of Z 50000 trainsets in the older Carmillon livery (left) and the STIF/ÎdFM livery (right)
In service2009–present
ManufacturerBombardier Transportation
Built atCrespin
Replaced
Constructed2009–2022
Entered service14 December 2009
Number built360 trainsets[1]
Number in service360 trainsets (as of 2 December 2022) (2686 cars)
Formation7 or 8 cars per trainset
194 trainsets with 7 cars
166 trainsets with 8 cars
(all as of 2 December 2022)
Fleet numbersZ 50001/2–50719/720
Capacity
  • Seated: 405[a] / 503[b]
  • Standing: 468[a] / 552[b] (at 4 per square metre)
Operator(s)SNCF
Depot(s)
  • Technicentre Paris Nord
  • Technicentre Paris Est
  • Levallois
  • Argenteuil
Line(s) served
Specifications
Car body constructionStainless steel
Train length
  • 94.3 m (309 ft 5 in)[a]
  • 112.5 m (369 ft 1 in)[b]
Car length
  • 16.53 m (54 ft 3 in) (end car)
  • 13.24 m (43 ft 5 in) (intermediate cars)
Width3.06 m (10 ft 0 in)
Height4.28 m (14 ft 1 in)
Floor height985 mm (38.8 in)
Wheel diameter840 mm (33.07 in)
Wheelbase1,900 mm (75 in)
Maximum speed140 km/h (87 mph)
Weight
  • 210,000 kg (460,000 lb)[a]
  • 240,000 kg (530,000 lb)[b]
Traction systemBombardier MITRAC IGBTVVVF
Traction motors10 × 262 kW (351 hp) 3-phase AC induction motor
Power output2,620 kW (3,513 hp)
Acceleration1 m/s2 (2.2 mph/s) (up to 50 km/h (31 mph))[b]
Deceleration1.05 m/s2 (2.3 mph/s)[b] (service)
Electric system(s)
Current collector(s)Pantograph Type AX
UIC classification
  • Bo′+2′+Bo′+Bo′+2′+Bo′+2′+Bo′ (7 cars)
  • Bo′+2′+Bo′+Bo′+2′+2′+Bo′+2′+Bo′ (8 cars)
BogiesFLEXX Compact (jacobs)
Braking system(s)Disc, dynamic and regenerative
Safety system(s)Crocodile and KVB
Coupling systemScharfenberg type
Multiple workingZ 50000
Track gauge1,435 mm (4 ft 8+12 in) standard gauge
Notes/references
[2][3][4]

A total of 360 trainsets have either been built or are under construction by Canadian conglomerate Bombardier at its Crespin, France (near Valenciennes) factory since 2006. The first set was placed into regular passenger service on 14 December 2009.

The name Francilien is also the demonym for people living in Île-de-France.

History edit

In 2004, the Syndicat des transports d'Île-de-France (STIF, the transit authority for the Paris region until June 2017) began the tendering process for approximately 180 new electric multiple unit trainsets to replace SNCF's aging single-deck suburban fleet, including trainsets nicknamed “inox” (short for inoxydable, English: stainless [steel]) (Classes Z 5300, Z 6100, Z 6400) and similar push-pull trainsets known as RIB (Rame inox de banlieue [fr]) and RIO (Rame inox omnibus [fr]). The SNCF and STIF requested bids for a train design that could operate on a typical journey of 30 to 50 kilometres (19 to 31 miles) in length, including numerous stops lasting 30 to 40 seconds, and able to operate from either 1,500 V DC or 25 kV 50 Hz AC overhead catenary electrification.[5]

Alstom, Bombardier, and Siemens all submitted bids for the project.[6] In 2006, SNCF (French Railway Company) and Syndicat des transports d'Île-de-France (STIF, the transit authority for the Paris region until June 2017) awarded the contract to Bombardier with a firm order for 172 ‘Francilien’ trainsets at a cost of €1.85 billion, with an option for 200 more.[2][3]

Bombardier presented the Spacium vehicle at Crespin on 6 February 2009.[7] The first service operated by a Francilien train was on Transilien Line H from Paris Gare du Nord to Luzarches on Sunday 13 December 2009.[8] As of December 2018, 360 trainsets had been ordered, and about 240 were in active service.[9]

Design edit

Bombardier vehicle design is articulated using Jakobs bogies between the carriages. Seating is in a 3+2 layout giving over 400 seats in a seven-car unit, over 500 in an eight-car set. Total capacity exceeds 800 (or 1,000 in eight-car trains) including standing passengers at 4 per square metre (3.3/sq yd). The vehicle's width is 3.06 metres (10 ft 0 in), which is wider than previous trains, achieved by having a relatively short car length of 13.24 metres (43 ft 5 in).[5][4] The inter-carriage passages have wide, open gangway connections, limiting bottlenecking.[4] All interior lights are provided by light-emitting diodes (LED), so power consumption is lessened.[5] Technical details: SPACIUM Environmental Product Description.[10]

Technical characteristics edit

The dual-current capacity (1,500 volts DC and 25,000 volts AC) enables the train to serve the entire Ile-de-France network. Its electrical consumption is 20% lower than that of equipment in circulation in 2009. The two traction motors per bogie are of the three-phase asynchronous type; they operate at a voltage of 380 volts - 50 hertz. The motorization is distributed over five motor bogies, located at each end, in line with the driving cabs, and between cars 2 and 3, 3 and 4 and 6 and 7 (in the long version) or 5 and 6 (in the short).

A train is divided into two distinct sets of traction chain, cars 1 to 4 on the one hand and cars 6 to 8 on the other hand. Each of these half-elements has two traction chains in parallel, redundancy which reduces the risk of unavailability in the event of a breakdown. The Z 50000 are distinguished by another specific feature: in normal operation, only 80% of the available power, or 2,950 kW (3,960 hp) for one element, is used. In the event of failure of one of the engine blocks, the other engines are actuated at 100% in order to ensure the normal operation of the train.

The acceleration reaches 0.9 m/s2 for the eight-cell configuration and 1 m/s2 for the seven-cell configuration. The deceleration reaches −1.05 m/s2 during service braking.

Formations edit

As of 1 March 2022, 339 Z50000 trainsets (01H to 346L).

8 cars sets edit

The 8-cars trainsets are formed as shown below, with five motorised cars and three non-powered trailer cars (5M3T) more precisely with 5 motorized bogies jacobs and 4 trailer bogies.

They are based at the Noisy le Sec (Line E and P), and les Joncherolles /St Denis (Line H and K) depot.

RER E
<- Haussman - St Lazare / Paris
Tournan / Chelles ->
 
Car No. 1 > 2 3 4 5 6 7 < 8
Type Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer Motorised
Numbering Z50xxx(odd number) ZR501xxx (odd number) ZZ502xxx (odd number) ZR503xxx(odd number) ZR504xxx (odd number) ZR505xxx (odd number) ZR506xxx (odd number) Z50xxx (even number)
Line H
<-Paris Nord
Pontoise / Luzarches/ Creil ->
 
Car No. 1 > 2 3 4 5 6 7 < 8
Type Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer Motorised
Numbering Z50xxx(odd number) ZR501xxx (odd number) ZZ502xxx (odd number) ZR503xxx(odd number) ZR504xxx (odd number) ZR505xxx (odd number) ZR506xxx (odd number) Z50xxx (even number)
Line K
<- Paris Nord
Crepy en Valois ->
 
Car No. 1 > 2 3 4 5 6 7 < 8
Type Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer Motorised
Numbering Z50xxx(odd number) ZR501xxx (odd number) ZZ502xxx (odd number) ZR503xxx(odd number) ZR504xxx (odd number) ZR505xxx (odd number) ZR506xxx (odd number) Z50xxx (even number)
Line P
<- Paris Est
Provins/La Ferté-Milon/Château-Thierry ->
 
Car No. 1 > 2 3 4 5 6 7 < 8
Type Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer Motorised
Numbering Z50xxx(odd number) ZR501xxx (odd number) ZZ502xxx (odd number) ZR503xxx(odd number) ZR504xxx (odd number) ZR505xxx (odd number)) ZR506xxx (odd number) Z50xxx (even number)
  • < or > show a pantograph. Cars 2 and 7 were each equipped with one pantograph.
  • The car 3 is called ZZ because it is supported by two motorized Jacobs bogies(it's the only intermediate car that's like this)

7 cars sets edit

The 7-cars trainsets are formed as shown below, with three motorised cars and two non-powered trailer cars (5M2T) more precisely with 5 motorized bogies jacobs and 3 trailer bogies.

They are based at Levallois (Line L), and le Val Notre Dame/Argenteuil (Line J) depot.

Line L
<-Paris St Lazare
Versailles RD / St Nom la Breteche/ Cergy ->
 
Car No. 1 > 2 3 4 5 6 < 7
Type Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer Motorised
Numbering Z50xxx(odd number) ZR501xxx (odd number) ZZ502xxx (odd number) ZR507xxx(odd number) ZR505xxx (odd number)) ZR506xxx (odd number) Z50xxx (even number)
Line J
<- Paris St Lazare
Ermont-Eaubonne/Mantes (Vernon)/Pontoise (Gisors) ->
 
Car No. 1 > 2 3 4 5 6 < 7
Type Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer Motorised
Numbering Z50xxx(odd number) ZR501xxx (odd number) ZZ502xxx (odd number) ZR507xxx(odd number) ZR505xxx (odd number)) ZR506xxx (odd number) Z50xxx (even number)
  • < or > show a pantograph. Cars 2 and 9 were each equipped with one pantograph.
  • The car 3 is called ZZ because it is supported by two motorized Jacobs bogies(it's the only intermediate car that's like this)

Fleet edit

The number of Z50000 trainsets is 339 (at the 1st March 2022) . They are on operations on the E,H,J,K,L and P Line .

  • Listing Fleet Z50000 (in french)

Photo gallery edit

See also edit

Notes edit

  1. ^ a b c d 7-car train
  2. ^ a b c d e f 8-car train

References edit

  1. ^ Liste des Z 50000 sur le site Trains du Sud-Ouest.
  2. ^ a b (PDF) (in French), STIF, 28 March 2008, archived from the original (PDF) on 7 September 2008
  3. ^ a b . International Railway Journal. September 2008. pp. 29–32. Archived from the original on 2012-06-20. Retrieved 2012-06-24.
  4. ^ a b c . Bombardier. Archived from the original on 13 January 2018. Retrieved 30 April 2023.
  5. ^ a b c "L'automotrice "Francilien", futur matériel pour l'Île-de-France"", Revue générale des chemins de fer (in French), no. 172, pp. 7–16, May 2008, ISSN 0035-3183
  6. ^ (PDF), Syndicat des Transports d'Ile-de-France, 24 March 2006, 3. Nouvelle Automotrice Transilien (NAT), archived from the original (PDF) on 3 March 2013
  7. ^ "Spacium готов к испытаниям" (PDF), Железные дороги мира (ЖДМ) (in Russian), no. 3, pp. 31–36, 2009[permanent dead link]
  8. ^ First run for the Francilien, SNCF, 11 December 2009
  9. ^ "Paris commuter EMUs ordered". Railway Gazette International. 27 December 2018. Retrieved 28 December 2018.
  10. ^ "SPACIUM Environmental Product Description" (PDF). Bombardier Transportation.

Literature edit

  • "De la NAT au Francilien : la genèse d'un projet mené tambour battant", Rail Passion (in French), no. 153, pp. 46–65, July 2010, ISSN 1261-3665
  • "Ввод в обращение - первых поездов Francilien" (PDF), Железные дороги мира (in Russian), no. 4, pp. 32–37, 2010[permanent dead link]
  • Jackson, C (2010), Railway Gazette International, no. 2, pp. 55–58 {{citation}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
  • "Server error" Пригородный - электропоезд новой концепции (PDF), Железные дороги мира (in Russian), no. 10, pp. 36–8, 2007[permanent dead link]
  • Hughes, M. (2007), Railway Gazette International, no. 9, p. 574 {{citation}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

sncf, class, 50000, francilien, redirects, here, region, Île, france, region, also, known, francilian, french, nouvelle, automotrice, transilien, english, rail, transilien, project, name, type, dual, voltage, electric, multiple, unit, trainset, designed, 2000s. Francilien redirects here For the region see Ile de France region The SNCF Class Z 50000 also known as the Francilian or NAT for French Nouvelle Automotrice Transilien English New Rail car Transilien the project name is a type of dual voltage electric multiple unit trainset designed in the 2000s It is commuter rail system serving Paris and its Ile de France suburbs on the Transilien network Departing stations are Gare du Nord Gare de l Est and Gare Saint Lazare Z 50000A pair of Z 50000 trainsets in the older Carmillon livery left and the STIF IdFM livery right In service2009 presentManufacturerBombardier TransportationBuilt atCrespinReplacedBB 17000 RIB Z 6100 Z 6400 VB2N Z 20500Constructed2009 2022Entered service14 December 2009Number built360 trainsets 1 Number in service360 trainsets as of 2 December 2022 2686 cars Formation7 or 8 cars per trainset194 trainsets with 7 cars166 trainsets with 8 cars all as of 2 December 2022 Fleet numbersZ 50001 2 50719 720CapacitySeated 405 a 503 b Standing 468 a 552 b at 4 per square metre Operator s SNCFDepot s Technicentre Paris NordTechnicentre Paris EstLevalloisArgenteuilLine s served SpecificationsCar body constructionStainless steelTrain length94 3 m 309 ft 5 in a 112 5 m 369 ft 1 in b Car length16 53 m 54 ft 3 in end car 13 24 m 43 ft 5 in intermediate cars Width3 06 m 10 ft 0 in Height4 28 m 14 ft 1 in Floor height985 mm 38 8 in Wheel diameter840 mm 33 07 in Wheelbase1 900 mm 75 in Maximum speed140 km h 87 mph Weight210 000 kg 460 000 lb a 240 000 kg 530 000 lb b Traction systemBombardier MITRAC IGBT VVVFTraction motors10 262 kW 351 hp 3 phase AC induction motorPower output2 620 kW 3 513 hp Acceleration1 m s2 2 2 mph s up to 50 km h 31 mph b Deceleration1 05 m s2 2 3 mph s b service Electric system s Overhead line 25 kV 50 Hz AC 1 500 V DCCurrent collector s Pantograph Type AXUIC classificationBo 2 Bo Bo 2 Bo 2 Bo 7 cars Bo 2 Bo Bo 2 2 Bo 2 Bo 8 cars BogiesFLEXX Compact jacobs Braking system s Disc dynamic and regenerativeSafety system s Crocodile and KVBCoupling systemScharfenberg typeMultiple workingZ 50000Track gauge1 435 mm 4 ft 8 1 2 in standard gaugeNotes references 2 3 4 A total of 360 trainsets have either been built or are under construction by Canadian conglomerate Bombardier at its Crespin France near Valenciennes factory since 2006 The first set was placed into regular passenger service on 14 December 2009 The name Francilien is also the demonym for people living in Ile de France Contents 1 History 2 Design 3 Technical characteristics 4 Formations 4 1 8 cars sets 4 2 7 cars sets 5 Fleet 6 Photo gallery 7 See also 8 Notes 9 References 9 1 LiteratureHistory editIn 2004 the Syndicat des transports d Ile de France STIF the transit authority for the Paris region until June 2017 began the tendering process for approximately 180 new electric multiple unit trainsets to replace SNCF s aging single deck suburban fleet including trainsets nicknamed inox short for inoxydable English stainless steel Classes Z 5300 Z 6100 Z 6400 and similar push pull trainsets known as RIB Rame inox de banlieue fr and RIO Rame inox omnibus fr The SNCF and STIF requested bids for a train design that could operate on a typical journey of 30 to 50 kilometres 19 to 31 miles in length including numerous stops lasting 30 to 40 seconds and able to operate from either 1 500 V DC or 25 kV 50 Hz AC overhead catenary electrification 5 Alstom Bombardier and Siemens all submitted bids for the project 6 In 2006 SNCF French Railway Company and Syndicat des transports d Ile de France STIF the transit authority for the Paris region until June 2017 awarded the contract to Bombardier with a firm order for 172 Francilien trainsets at a cost of 1 85 billion with an option for 200 more 2 3 Bombardier presented the Spacium vehicle at Crespin on 6 February 2009 7 The first service operated by a Francilien train was on Transilien Line H from Paris Gare du Nord to Luzarches on Sunday 13 December 2009 8 As of December 2018 360 trainsets had been ordered and about 240 were in active service 9 Design editBombardier vehicle design is articulated using Jakobs bogies between the carriages Seating is in a 3 2 layout giving over 400 seats in a seven car unit over 500 in an eight car set Total capacity exceeds 800 or 1 000 in eight car trains including standing passengers at 4 per square metre 3 3 sq yd The vehicle s width is 3 06 metres 10 ft 0 in which is wider than previous trains achieved by having a relatively short car length of 13 24 metres 43 ft 5 in 5 4 The inter carriage passages have wide open gangway connections limiting bottlenecking 4 All interior lights are provided by light emitting diodes LED so power consumption is lessened 5 Technical details SPACIUM Environmental Product Description 10 Technical characteristics editThe dual current capacity 1 500 volts DC and 25 000 volts AC enables the train to serve the entire Ile de France network Its electrical consumption is 20 lower than that of equipment in circulation in 2009 The two traction motors per bogie are of the three phase asynchronous type they operate at a voltage of 380 volts 50 hertz The motorization is distributed over five motor bogies located at each end in line with the driving cabs and between cars 2 and 3 3 and 4 and 6 and 7 in the long version or 5 and 6 in the short A train is divided into two distinct sets of traction chain cars 1 to 4 on the one hand and cars 6 to 8 on the other hand Each of these half elements has two traction chains in parallel redundancy which reduces the risk of unavailability in the event of a breakdown The Z 50000 are distinguished by another specific feature in normal operation only 80 of the available power or 2 950 kW 3 960 hp for one element is used In the event of failure of one of the engine blocks the other engines are actuated at 100 in order to ensure the normal operation of the train The acceleration reaches 0 9 m s2 for the eight cell configuration and 1 m s2 for the seven cell configuration The deceleration reaches 1 05 m s2 during service braking Formations editAs of 1 March 2022 339 Z50000 trainsets 01H to 346L 8 cars sets edit The 8 cars trainsets are formed as shown below with five motorised cars and three non powered trailer cars 5M3T more precisely with 5 motorized bogies jacobs and 4 trailer bogies They are based at the Noisy le Sec Line E and P and les Joncherolles St Denis Line H and K depot RER E lt Haussman St Lazare ParisTournan Chelles gt Car No 1 gt 2 3 4 5 6 7 lt 8Type Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer MotorisedNumbering Z50xxx odd number ZR501xxx odd number ZZ502xxx odd number ZR503xxx odd number ZR504xxx odd number ZR505xxx odd number ZR506xxx odd number Z50xxx even number Line H lt Paris NordPontoise Luzarches Creil gt Car No 1 gt 2 3 4 5 6 7 lt 8Type Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer MotorisedNumbering Z50xxx odd number ZR501xxx odd number ZZ502xxx odd number ZR503xxx odd number ZR504xxx odd number ZR505xxx odd number ZR506xxx odd number Z50xxx even number Line K lt Paris NordCrepy en Valois gt Car No 1 gt 2 3 4 5 6 7 lt 8Type Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer MotorisedNumbering Z50xxx odd number ZR501xxx odd number ZZ502xxx odd number ZR503xxx odd number ZR504xxx odd number ZR505xxx odd number ZR506xxx odd number Z50xxx even number Line P lt Paris EstProvins La Ferte Milon Chateau Thierry gt Car No 1 gt 2 3 4 5 6 7 lt 8Type Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer MotorisedNumbering Z50xxx odd number ZR501xxx odd number ZZ502xxx odd number ZR503xxx odd number ZR504xxx odd number ZR505xxx odd number ZR506xxx odd number Z50xxx even number lt or gt show a pantograph Cars 2 and 7 were each equipped with one pantograph The car 3 is called ZZ because it is supported by two motorized Jacobs bogies it s the only intermediate car that s like this 7 cars sets edit The 7 cars trainsets are formed as shown below with three motorised cars and two non powered trailer cars 5M2T more precisely with 5 motorized bogies jacobs and 3 trailer bogies They are based at Levallois Line L and le Val Notre Dame Argenteuil Line J depot Line L lt Paris St LazareVersailles RD St Nom la Breteche Cergy gt Car No 1 gt 2 3 4 5 6 lt 7Type Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer MotorisedNumbering Z50xxx odd number ZR501xxx odd number ZZ502xxx odd number ZR507xxx odd number ZR505xxx odd number ZR506xxx odd number Z50xxx even number Line J lt Paris St LazareErmont Eaubonne Mantes Vernon Pontoise Gisors gt Car No 1 gt 2 3 4 5 6 lt 7Type Motorised Trailer Motorised Trailer MotorisedNumbering Z50xxx odd number ZR501xxx odd number ZZ502xxx odd number ZR507xxx odd number ZR505xxx odd number ZR506xxx odd number Z50xxx even number lt or gt show a pantograph Cars 2 and 9 were each equipped with one pantograph The car 3 is called ZZ because it is supported by two motorized Jacobs bogies it s the only intermediate car that s like this Fleet editThe number of Z50000 trainsets is 339 at the 1st March 2022 They are on operations on the E H J K L and P Line Listing Fleet Z50000 in french Photo gallery edit nbsp Interior showing 3 2 seating nbsp Interior showing open gangway connection nbsp Gap filler allowing easy access for wheelchair users nbsp SIVE dynamic passenger information screens nbsp Operator s cab nbsp Z 50000 in the new Ile de France Mobilites livery on Transilien Line H at Bessancourt station nbsp Z 50000 in the older Carmillon livery on Transilien Line L at Cergy Saint Christophe stationSee also editList of SNCF classesNotes edit a b c d 7 car train a b c d e f 8 car trainReferences edit Liste des Z 50000 sur le site Trains du Sud Ouest a b Dossier de Presse 28 mars 2008 Visite a Crespin Nord de la ligne de fabrication du Francilien PDF in French STIF 28 March 2008 archived from the original PDF on 7 September 2008 a b Paris prepares for the Spacium age International Railway Journal September 2008 pp 29 32 Archived from the original on 2012 06 20 Retrieved 2012 06 24 a b c SPACIUM commuter train Ile de France Bombardier Archived from the original on 13 January 2018 Retrieved 30 April 2023 a b c L automotrice Francilien futur materiel pour l Ile de France Revue generale des chemins de fer in French no 172 pp 7 16 May 2008 ISSN 0035 3183 Des trains modernises sur le reseau Transilien PDF Syndicat des Transports d Ile de France 24 March 2006 3 Nouvelle Automotrice Transilien NAT archived from the original PDF on 3 March 2013 Spacium gotov k ispytaniyam PDF Zheleznye dorogi mira ZhDM in Russian no 3 pp 31 36 2009 permanent dead link First run for theFrancilien SNCF 11 December 2009 Paris commuter EMUs ordered Railway Gazette International 27 December 2018 Retrieved 28 December 2018 SPACIUM Environmental Product Description PDF Bombardier Transportation Literature edit De la NAT au Francilien la genese d un projet mene tambour battant Rail Passion in French no 153 pp 46 65 July 2010 ISSN 1261 3665 Vvod v obrashenie pervyh poezdov Francilien PDF Zheleznye dorogi mira in Russian no 4 pp 32 37 2010 permanent dead link Jackson C 2010 Railway Gazette International no 2 pp 55 58 a href Template Citation html title Template Citation citation a Missing or empty title help Server error Prigorodnyj elektropoezd novoj koncepcii PDF Zheleznye dorogi mira in Russian no 10 pp 36 8 2007 permanent dead link Hughes M 2007 Railway Gazette International no 9 p 574 a href Template Citation html title Template Citation citation a Missing or empty title help nbsp Wikimedia Commons has media related to SNCF Class Z 50000 Retrieved from https en wikipedia org w index php title SNCF Class Z 50000 amp oldid 1189308751, wikipedia, wiki, book, books, library,

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