White Light, White Heat, White Trash
White Light, White Heat, White Trash is the fifth studio album by American punk rock band Social Distortion, released on September 17, 1996, by 550 Music and Epic Records. The album was produced by Michael Beinhorn. After the release of Social Distortion's 1992 album Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell, the band toured until the end of 1993 and needed a break. After dealing with court battles over early recordings and attempting to retrieve them, package them up, and release them, Social Distortion wrote many songs to plan a new album.
| White Light, White Heat, White Trash | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Studio album by | ||||
| Released | September 17, 1996 | |||
| Recorded | August 1995 – June 1996 | |||
| Studio | Bearsville Studio, Woodstock, New York, U.S. | |||
| Genre | Hardcore punk | |||
| Length | 46:33 | |||
| Label | ||||
| Producer | Michael Beinhorn | |||
| Social Distortion chronology | ||||
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| Singles from White Light, White Heat, White Trash | ||||
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Social Distortion guitarist and singer Mike Ness was disappointed with the way music was during the 1990s, including punk rock and rock music in general. He wanted to make a new album that would be considered Social Distortion's best album and wanted to bring back the characteristics and emotions of 1970s punk rock. White Light, White Heat, White Trash includes fewer rock and roll, country and blues influences than the three previous Social Distortion albums, and instead, White Light, White Heat, White Trash is a stylistic return to the band's 1980s hardcore punk-era such as their debut Mommy's Little Monster. The album has more introspective and personal lyrics about topics like grief, regret, looking back to the past, and making changes or improvements in one's life. The lyrics were inspired by Ness' past, which involved drugs, alcohol, and jail.
Reviews for White Light, White Heat, White Trash were mixed-to-positive, with the musical style and lyrical content being praised by some critics and criticized by other critics. The album experienced moderate success and peaked at number 27 on the Billboard 200, selling 30,000 copies in its first week of release in the United States. Selling 10,000 to 12,000 copies weekly, White Light, White Heat, White Trash sold 277,000 copies in the United States as of December 31, 1998, according to Nielsen SoundScan, making it Social Distortion's third best-selling album. The album's two singles are "I Was Wrong" and "When the Angels Sing". "I Was Wrong" experienced chart success on the Billboard charts, playing frequently on rock radio and MTV. "When the Angels Sing" lacked chart success compared to "I Was Wrong". Social Distortion planned to tour both inside and outside the United States, given that the band began to attract people outside the United States instead of solely attracting Americans. Social Distortion also performed at Warped Tour 1997 along with bands like Lagwagon, Less Than Jake, and the Mighty Mighty Bosstones.
Background, writing, and recording edit
After the release of Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell in 1992, Social Distortion went touring and they toured until the end of 1993. The band's guitarist and singer Mike Ness said the band "needed a break." Social Distortion then had to be involved in some court battles to retrieve some of the band's early recordings. The recording were not in the band's possession and the recordings were unavailable to the public, too. The band "had to retrieve them, package them up and put them out."[1] Social Distortion wrote 25 songs for a new album because the band wanted to write an album "that would stand out", according to Ness. "We wanted to make 'The Record'," he explained. He claims there's a few songs on each Social Distortion album that he hated "because we just did 'em, and settled for it and didn't challenge it."[1]
Social Distortion wrote a dozen songs in 1994 for a new album, but were told by producer Michael Beinhorn that most of the songs would not work. Ness says: "He saw something inside that needed to come out, and we weren't quite achieving it. We went back in and did more writing. We ended up keeping two of those twelve songs."[2] Initially, Ness was upset but the two "gained a mutual respect for each other." Ness decided the two "were on the right track" and saw the situation as an exciting challenge. The title to White Light, White Heat, White Trash was a reference to the 1949 film White Heat and the Velvet Underground album White Light/White Heat.[2] When recording started in the late spring of 1995, Beinhorn decided that drummer Randy Carr was not providing the studio sound Beinhorn sought. Ness trusted the producer enough to agree to the decision. A session player, Deen Castronovo, participated in the recording.[2] After he participated, he stopped playing for Social Distortion and drummer Chuck Biscuits, former drummer for bands like Black Flag, Danzig, D.O.A. and the Circle Jerks, joined Social Distortion.[1] The album was recorded from August 1995 to June 1996 in Bearsville Studio in Woodstock, New York.[3] "Going back to basics" was considered the philosophy that underlay the recording process of White Light, White Heat, White Trash. As a result, Beinhorn solely used analog and vintage equipment in the studio. Ness claimed that during the cutting of the guitar tracks, he used a '68 Gold Top reissue with P-90 pickups, a few SG reissues and a Silvertone through various Fenders, Marshalls and Soldanos. Ness said: "Me and [Social Distortion guitarist] Dennis Danell really wanted to get an in-your-face sound," said Ness. "Something with a bottom end that would hit you right in the chest."[4] Ness claims that Social Distortion "used all analog equipment until the very last moment", which he considered similar to 1970s rock.
Ness was disappointed with the state of music that existed during the 1990s. When he wrote White Light, White Heat, White Trash, he was "reacting against" 1990s music. Rejecting grunge, Ness was inspired by the style of 1970s punk bands like The Clash, the New York Dolls, Generation X, the Dead Boys, and Johnny Thunders. Ness said he "don't like hardly anybody" who was making music during the 1990s. He then said: "I don't want to listen to this stuff. I want to listen to the real thing. It's very hard for me to get inspired by contemporary music." Ness said that 1970s punk rock "was also the only music at the time accurately portraying how I felt inside."[1] Expressing his opinion of the way music was during the 1990s, Ness said: "Our intention is to bring back the soul and emotion of that first wave of punk in the late '70s, which I feel is sorely lacking today". He then said: "Punk has become a formula now. It's basically Cheap Trick with louder guitars," he said. "A lot of passion has been lost as it's become more marketable. The masses have decided that punk rock is safe, but we were doing this music when it was unpopular." Ness believed that punk rock was no longer countercultural or dangerous in the 1990s. "Punk was more dangerous back then," he recalls. "In Orange County in 1979, if you walked down the street in a leather jacket and spiked hair, you made a decision that you would have a confrontation that day."[6] Ness said "there's just things going on today that just would never have been allowed" in the early years of punk rock, and he said that heavy metal, for example, was hated by punk rock musicians and fans during punk rock's early years. He then criticized grunge bands like Alice in Chains and Stone Temple Pilots, describing them as "just Led Zeppelin with a pierced nose and short hair." Ness made an exception for grunge band Nirvana, saying he "believed them".[1]
Social Distortion wanted to go back to its late 1970s and early 1980s punk rock roots with White Light, White Heat, White Trash.[7] Ness said "I don't want this to be just another Social D record. I want it to be the Social D record."[2] Ness said: "The last thing I wanted to write was a cute alternative record," he says. "This album is about going back to the genuine emotion and rock basics that fueled the first wave of punk." Social Distortion's 1983 debut studio album Mommy's Little Monster was inspired by bands like the Ramones, the Rolling Stones, and X. Ness considered White Light, White Heat, White Trash to be a "regression back to" Mommy's Little Monster and believes the album shows Social Distortion going back to the band's roots, but still considers the album an evolution because Ness "had to dig really deep", citing songs like "I Was Wrong" and "When the Angels Sing" as examples of this. He says those two songs "deal with sin and redemption, inner conflict, good and bad."[4]
Musical style and lyrical themes edit
Musical style edit
White Light, White Heat, White Trash shows the band taking a break from the rock and roll and country-inspired style of previous Social Distortion albums by instead featuring a pure hardcore punk style bearing resemblance to Mommy's Little Monster and the Mainliner compilation.[1][7][8][9] In Music We Trust described both the album and Social Distortion's music as a whole as street punk.[10] Describing White Light, White Heat, White Trash as "heavy hard rock", Stephen Thomas Erlewine of AllMusic wrote that Social Distortion "made a conscious attempt to cash in on the alternative 'revolution' of the early '90s."[11] Nonetheless, Dan McGarry of The Yale Herald wrote: "If Ness wanted this record to demonstrate that unique quality that puts Social Distortion above and beyond current "alternative" music, he has succeeded."[9] Marci Von Savoy of The Daily Universe wrote: "The album is reminiscent of the primary punk bands influences: The Ramones, The Clash and the late '70s and early '80s punk sound. The album veers far from the alternative trend, which seems to sneak its way into newer punk rock."[5] iTunes described White Light, White Heat, White Trash's musical style as a musical style resembling hardcore punk and classic punk rock, writing that "Social Distortion returned to its hardcore roots".[12] Ness said of the album's musical style: "What's really ironic about this record is that it probably has more similarities to our first album, from 1983, than any of them. And that was purely unconscious. A lot of those emotions resurfaced. Or I just got in touch with them. I don't think they ever go away." Ness believes White Light, White Heat, White Trash was featuring both Social Distortion moving forward and reverting to the band's roots.[1] White Light, White Heat, White Trash features a hidden track and the hidden track is a cover of the Rolling Stones song "Under My Thumb". Ness said:
"We had recorded that song so long ago and I just wanted to re-record it and do it like we were playing it so well. We had evolved as a band so much, I felt like I wanted to revisit it, re-record it and just throw it in there. [Some] songs that mean a lot to me, I've already been listening to them for so long and I just one day go, 'I'm going to start playing this.' Me and the band work it out. I want to show everyone how it influenced me so it becomes my own version of that."[13]
Lyrical themes edit
"I was 10 years into my recovery from drugs and alcohol and certain things were becoming clear to me, like maybe drugs and alcohol were just a small part of the problem. It was just the beginning of a little self-awareness. I didn't like what I was seeing....It was a lot of the evaluating things."[13]
Ness on the lyrical inspiration for White Light, White Heat, White Trash.
The lyrics on White Light, White Heat, White Trash are more personal than lyrics on previous Social Distortion albums. Although a couple of songs are more political or about social issues, the lyrical content on the album are instead personal or introspective. The lyrics often deal with looking back at the past and making changes or improvements in one's life. Ness' struggles in life with drugs, alcohol, and jail inspired the lyrics of the album.[13] Ness says "Dear Lover", despite the song title, was not necessarily written after a heartbreak. "I already felt like that. I didn't even need to get my heart broke to feel that way. What I was doing wasn't working. It was almost like saying goodbye to that life because it really wasn't bringing me happiness. It's something everyone goes through and I kind of wanted to paint a picture, an accurate picture, of that."[13] "Don't Drag Me Down" is about racism and how Ness witnessed it when touring in the United States and seeing it at punk rock concerts, leading to him engaging in physical fights.[13] "Untitled" is about Ness becoming sober and a few older men helped him with it. One of them was a very close friend of his but that friend died. Ness lost four other friends and all of this inspired "Untitled".[13] "I Was Wrong" is about admitting to mistakes or engaging in morally wrong behavior.[2] Ness explains: "I don't know this for sure, but I may have been one of the first rock 'n' rollers to just say, 'at certain times in my life I was an asshole.' This job comes a big ego, 'Hey man, I am who I am. Take it, that's just what I do. I'm Mike Ness. Take it or leave it.' It's so easy to pull that card, but it's a lot harder to look inward and just go, 'You know what? You're right. I was wrong.' "[13] "Down on the World Again" is "about having the worst day", according to Ness. He says it is inspired by his painful childhood and how it made him an angry person. He considers it useful to use that anger for songwriting but considers it unhealthy to use anger in one's daily life. He says: "I was fighting the world, but I didn't even really have a reason."[13] "When the Angels Sing" is about the death of Ness' grandmother and how being single intensified the grief.[2][13] Ness' grandmother died in December 1993. Ness said about "When the Angels Sing": "My feelings came out more in that song than what I felt in the actual funeral."[5] "Gotta Know the Rules" is about rules and laws in life and the consequences of disobeying it. Ness elaborated:
"Like, how you treat people. I was just learning about the melody at that point in my life and how important that is, and vulnerability. A lot of people just aren't in touch with this kind of stuff. Their job and their car and their career define them and they run on that, especially if they're in a business that's competitive or something. It's cutthroat, and you don't take time to look at this kind of stuff. Our egos are so powerful, but I feel like the ego is the one thing that humans could do without."[13]
"Crown of Thorns" is about repeating the same mistakes in life, expecting different results. Ness elaborated: "I knew I wasn't going to find love where I was looking. At some point there's an aspect of self care that has to come into play, otherwise it's never going to change."[13] "Pleasure Seeker" is about struggling to make a decision because a decision feels good but one considers it morally wrong.[13] "Down Here With the Rest of Us" is about the level playing field. Ness said: "It's a level playing field no matter who you are. We're still going to go through pain in life. I think it was kind of a snub at people who think they're above that. It's like no, we're all in this mess together, bro. No one gets out alive."[13]
Critical reception edit
| Review scores | |
|---|---|
| Source | Rating |
| AllMusic | [11] |
| Chicago Tribune | [14] |
| Entertainment Weekly | A−[15] |
| Rolling Stone | [16] |
| The Rolling Stone Album Guide | [17] |
| Spin | 4/10[18] |
| The Chanticleer | 4/5[19] |
Reviews and ratings for White Light, White Heat, White Trash were generally mixed to positive. AllMusic's Stephen Thomas Erlewine, however, called the album a "conscious attempt to cash in on the alternative 'revolution" of the early '90s" and expressed mixed feelings towards the band's musical direction, stating, "Underneath the layers of glossy hard rock production, the band still hold fast to some of their punk roots, but too often they sound like a heavy hard rock band. Of course, that commercial sheen is intentional – it's the only way they could appeal to the legions of post-grunge alternative fans who appeared since Social Distortion released Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell in 1992."[11] Chris Moran of Punknews.org praised the album and wrote: "with its passionate lyrics, laced with heavy undertones; this is unquestionable a milestone in the legacy of Social Distortion."[20] Tom Sinclair of Entertainment Weekly wrote: "After more than a decade of hard playing and harder living, Southern California's Social Distortion have made their first truly transcendent album."[20] Roberto Gonzalez of the Hartford Courant wrote: "The album is exhausting. Almost every song kicks with an amazing intensity that will have you immediately hooked."[8] Ira Robbins of Rolling Stone wrote: "the band's musical and emotional values are timeless. Like a fist in the face, White Light White Heat White Trash is simple and effective."[16] Chuck Eddy of Spin gave White Light, White Heat, White Trash a mixed to negative review and wrote: Ness's newfound nasal-flattened attempts at balladic sensitivity are embarrassing".[18] Sam Dillon of The Chanticleer praised the album and wrote: "You just can't go wrong with Social D. they've got everything you could ask for in a punk-rock band. They are inventive, individual, and very talented. Go out right now and get album."[19] Jon Pareles of The New York Times criticized White Light, White Heat, White Trash's lyrics, claiming it had a lot of clichés, but praised the album's melodies.[21] White Light, White Heat, White Trash was ranked at number 41 on Kerrang!'s "50 Greatest Punk Albums Ever".[22] Some Social Distortion fans were upset when the first single "I Was Wrong" was played on rock radio because they believed punk rock should not be corporate or mainstream. Nonetheless, punk rock fans eventually moved on from this in the early 2000s. Social Distortion continued to be regarded as an important punk band by punk rock fans and the band continued to receive respect and support from punk rock fans.[20] White Light, White Heat, White Trash was included in lists of the best albums of 1996 by The Buffalo News and other publications.[23]
Commercial performance, touring, and promotion edit
Released on September 17, 1996,[13] White Light, White Heat, White Trash peaked at number 27 on the Billboard 200, selling 30,000 in its first week of release in the United States.[24] The album sold steady weekly sales of 10,000 to 12,000 copies.[25] According to Nielsen SoundScan, as of December 31, 1998, White Light, White Heat, White Trash has sold 277,000 copies in the United States, making it Social Distortion's third best-selling album.[26] Ness was confident that the album would have more success than the band's self-titled album (1990) and Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell (1992), given that the two previous albums were released before 1994, the year punk rock became mainstream, and given that many more radio stations in the mid-1990s were starting to frequently play punk rock music.[24] Social Distortion planned to tour both inside and outside the United States, given that the band began to attract people outside the United States instead of solely Americans.[24] Social Distortion performed at Warped Tour 1997 along with other bands like Blink-182, the Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Sick of It All, Descendents, Pennywise, the Suicide Machines, Lagwagon, Less Than Jake, Reel Big Fish, and Limp Bizkit.[27]
The song "I Was Wrong" was released to radio and had a music video created, too. The song had success on rock radio and was played on MTV.[24] The song peaked at number 54 on the Hot 100 Airplay chart and remained on the chart for 13 weeks.[28] The song had a lot of chart success on the Modern Rock Tracks chart, peaking at number 4 and remaining on the chart for 22 weeks.[29] The song also peaked at number 12 on the Mainstream Rock Tracks chart, remaining on there for 19 weeks.[30] "When the Angels Sing" also had a music video and was released to radio.[25] The song, however, did not have much success on rock radio and peaked at relatively low positions on the Billboard charts.[29][30]
Track listing edit
All lyrics are written by Mike Ness, except where noted
| No. | Title | Lyrics | Length |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1. | "Dear Lover" | 4:43 | |
| 2. | "Don't Drag Me Down" | 3:51 | |
| 3. | "Untitled" | 4:45 | |
| 4. | "I Was Wrong" | 3:58 | |
| 5. | "Through These Eyes" | 3:15 | |
| 6. | "Down on the World Again" | 3:22 | |
| 7. | "When the Angels Sing" | 4:15 | |
| 8. | "Gotta Know the Rules" | 3:28 | |
| 9. | "Crown of Thorns" | 4:15 | |
| 10. | "Pleasure Seeker" | 3:33 | |
| 11. | "Down Here (With the Rest of Us)" | 4:19 | |
| 12. | "Under My Thumb" (hidden track) | Mick Jagger, Keith Richards | 2:49 |
| Total length: | 46:33[11] | ||
Personnel edit
Adapted from White Light, White Heat, White Trash's liner notes.[31]
- Social Distortion
- Mike Ness – vocals, guitars, art direction, mixing
- Dennis Danell – guitars
- John Maurer – bass guitar
- Deen Castronovo – drums (uncredited session drummer)
- Chuck Biscuits – drums (credited as band member at the time of release, did not play on the album)
- Additional
- Michael Beinhorn – producer
- Kalynn Campbell – illustrations
- Jolie Clemens – art direction
- Giulio Costanzo – art direction
- George Marino – mastering
- John Travis – engineer, mixing
Charts edit
| Chart (1996) | Peak position |
|---|---|
| Canada Top Albums/CDs (RPM)[32] | 67 |
| UK Rock & Metal Albums (OCC)[33] | 28 |
| US Billboard 200[34] | 27 |
| Chart (2021) | Peak position |
|---|---|
| German Albums (Offizielle Top 100)[35] | 77 |
Accolades edit
| Publication | Country | Accolade | Year | Rank |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Blender | USA | 500 CDs You Must Own Before You Die[citation needed] | 2003 | * |
| Rock Hard | Germany | Top 300 Albums[citation needed] | 2001 | 123 |
| Rolling Stone | Germany | The 500 Best Albums of All Time[36] | 2004 | 170 |
| Visions | Germany | The Most Important Albums of the 90s[37] | 1999 | 31 |
| Kerrang! | United Kingdom | 50 Greatest Punk Albums Ever[22] | N/A | 41 |
(*) designates unordered lists.
References edit
- ^ a b c d e f g Jenkins, Mark (February 7, 1997). "Social Distortion: Loud and Clear". The Washington Post. Retrieved May 16, 2021.
- ^ a b c d e f Boehm, Mike (October 2, 1996). "Digging to Climb : Mike Ness of O.C.'s Social Distortion Delves Deep and Comes Up With 'White Light'". Los Angeles Times. Retrieved May 15, 2021.
- ^ "White Light, White Heat, White Trash". Social Distortion. Retrieved May 15, 2021.
- ^ a b Grad, David (January 1997). "Social Distortion White Power". Guitar World. p. 19. Retrieved May 16, 2021.
- ^ a b c "Social Distortion amuse with punk rock antics". The Daily Universe. December 13, 1996. Retrieved May 17, 2021.
- ^ Morse, Steve (November 29, 1996). "After 15 Years, Social Distortion Keeps the Punk Spirit Alive". Chicago Tribune. Retrieved May 15, 2021.
- ^ a b Ikenberg, Tamara (July 24, 1997). "Social Distortion keeps its youthful appeal". Chicago Tribune. Retrieved May 15, 2021.
- ^ a b Gonzalez, Roberto (October 24, 1996). "Album Review - Social Distortion - White Light, White Heat, White Trash". Hartford Courant. Retrieved May 15, 2021.
- ^ a b "New distortion from Social Distortion" 2007-08-11 at the Wayback Machine. YaleHerald.com. September 27, 1996. Retrieved on February 25, 2007.
- ^ Steininger, Alex (November 2003). "Mike Ness on politics, new album, and touring". In Music We Trust. Retrieved May 15, 2021.
- ^ a b c d Erlewine, Stephen Thomas Erlewine. "White Light White Heat White Trash – Social Distortion". AllMusic. Retrieved January 15, 2018.
- ^ "White Light White Heat White Trash by Social Distortion". iTunes. Retrieved May 16, 2021.
- ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n "Mike Ness Looks Back at Social Distortion's 'White Light, White Heat, White Trash'". Riot Fest. September 14, 2016. Retrieved May 15, 2021.
- ^ Kot, Greg (September 20, 1996). "Straight-up Rock". Chicago Tribune. Retrieved January 15, 2018.
- ^ Sinclair, Tom (October 18, 1996). . Entertainment Weekly. Archived from the original on January 15, 2018. Retrieved January 15, 2018.
- ^ a b Robbins, Ira (October 3, 1996). . Rolling Stone. Archived from the original on December 21, 2007. Retrieved January 15, 2018.
- ^ Considine, J. D. (2004). "Social Distortion". In Brackett, Nathan; Hoard, Christian (eds.). The New Rolling Stone Album Guide (4th ed.). Simon & Schuster. pp. 756–57. ISBN 0-7432-0169-8.
- ^ a b Eddy, Chuck (October 1996). "Social Distortion: White Light White Heat White Trash". Spin. 12 (7): 132. Retrieved January 15, 2018.
- ^ a b Dillon, Sam (November 21, 1996). "The Chanticleer CD Bin". The Chanticleer. Vol. 44, no. 12. p. 6. Retrieved May 15, 2021.
- ^ a b c Moran, Chris (December 17, 2002). "Review: White Light, White Heat, White Trash". Retrieved February 25, 2007.
- ^ Pareles, Jon (November 29, 1996). "Thumping Punk Back To Its Roots". The New York Times. Retrieved May 16, 2021.
- ^ a b "The Kerrang! 50 Greatest Punk Albums Ever". RockList.net. Retrieved on February 25, 2007.
- ^ Violanti, Anthony (February 3, 1997). "Social Distortion Tunes Out the Static". The Buffalo News. Retrieved May 16, 2021.
- ^ a b c d Boehm, Mike (October 2, 1996). "Will the Flash of 'White Light' Burn Steadily?". Los Angeles Times. Retrieved February 14, 2013.
- ^ a b Boehm, Mike (October 25, 1996). "It's Harvest Time for Korn and Other Local Products". Los Angeles Times. Retrieved May 15, 2021.
- ^ "Scoring Big". Los Angeles Times. December 31, 1998. Retrieved May 16, 2021.
- ^ "Northampton Gets Mighty, Mighty Warped". Hartford Courant. July 24, 1997. Retrieved May 16, 2021.
- ^ "Social Distortion Chart History (Radio Songs)". Billboard. Retrieved May 15, 2021.
- ^ a b "Social Distortion Chart History (Alternative Airplay)". Billboard. Retrieved May 15, 2021.
- ^ a b "Social Distortion Chart History (Mainstream Rock Airplay)". Billboard. Retrieved May 15, 2021.
- ^ White Light, White Heat, White Trash (CD liner notes). Social Distortion. Epic Records. 1996.
{{cite AV media notes}}: CS1 maint: others in cite AV media (notes) (link) - ^ "Top RPM Albums: Issue 9927". RPM. Library and Archives Canada. Retrieved 28 June 2023.
- ^ "Official Rock & Metal Albums Chart Top 40". Official Charts Company. Retrieved 28 June 2023.
- ^ "Social Distortion Chart History (Billboard 200)". Billboard. Retrieved 28 June 2023.
- ^ "Offiziellecharts.de – Social Distortion – White Light, White Heat, White Trash" (in German). GfK Entertainment Charts. Retrieved 28 June 2023.
- ^ Rolling Stone. "Die 500 besten Alben aller Zeiten". Retrieved 2007-08-08.
- ^ Visions. "Visions – Popular Music Best-Of-Lists List". Retrieved 2007-08-08.