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David Grusch UFO whistleblower claims

April 15, 2024

In 2023, David Grusch, a United States Air Force (USAF) officer and former intelligence official, was interviewed by journalists and testified in a U.S. House of Representatives hearing. Grusch claimed that the U.S. federal government maintains a secretive UFO (or UAP) recovery and reverse engineering program and that it is in possession of "non-human" spacecraft along with their "dead pilots". In 2022, Grusch filed a whistleblower complaint with the U.S. Office of the Intelligence Community Inspector General (ICIG) to support his plan to share classified information with the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. He also filed a complaint alleging retaliation by his superiors over a similar complaint he made in 2021.

July 26, 2023: David Grusch testifies before the U.S. House Subcommittee on National Security, the Border, and Foreign Affairs in the hearing titled "Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena: Implications on National Security, Public Safety, and Government Transparency".

He claims to have viewed documents reporting that Benito Mussolini's government recovered a "non-human" spacecraft in 1933, which the Vatican and the Five Eyes assisted the U.S. in procuring in 1944 or 1945. Grusch claims that American citizens have been harmed and killed as a part of governmental efforts to cover-up that information. In response, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) stated that no evidence of extraterrestrial life had been discovered and that there was no verifiable information about the U.S. government or private aerospace companies possessing and reverse engineering any "extraterrestrial materials".

In a testimony given to the U.S. House Committee on Oversight and Accountability in July 2023, Grusch repeated several of his claims under oath. Testimonies were also delivered by Ryan Graves, a retired fighter pilot, and David Fravor, a retired U.S. Navy commander, on their experiences related to UFOs. Grusch testified that he could not elaborate further in public, but offered to provide details to representatives in a sensitive compartmented information facility (SCIF).

Background

See also: Unidentified flying object § 20th century and after, UFO conspiracy theories § Disclosure, and Investigation of UFO reports by the United States government

David Charles Grusch is a decorated Afghanistan combat veteran and a former USAF intelligence officer[1] who worked in the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO).[2][3][4][5] From 2019 to 2021, he was the representative of the NRO to the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force.[3][4][6] From late 2021 to July 2022, he was the co-lead for UAP analysis at the NGA and its representative to the task force.[2] He assisted in drafting the National Defense Authorization Act of 2023,[7] which includes provisions for reporting of UFOs, including whistleblower protections and exemptions to non-disclosure orders and agreements.[8][9][10] Congressional interest in UFO sightings immediately prior to Grusch's public claims surrounded questions about the four objects that the Air Force shot down in February 2023.[11]

Grusch's public claims

 
Sean Kirkpatrick, director of the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office tasked with investigating and reporting to Congress on UAPs
 
Ross Coulthart, conductor of the June 5 interview with David Grusch on NewsNation

On June 5, 2023, independent journalists Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal provided a story detailing Grusch's claims of a UFO coverup by the government to The Debrief, a website that describes itself as "self-funded" and specializing in "frontier science".[12] The New York Times and Politico declined to publish the story, while The Washington Post was taking more time to conduct fact-checking than Kean and Blumenthal felt could be afforded because, according to Kean, "people on the internet were spreading stories, Dave was getting harassing phone calls, and we felt the only way to protect him was to get the story out".[13] According to Kean, she vetted Grusch by interviewing Karl Nell, a retired Army colonel who was also on the UFO task force, and "Jonathan Grey" (a pseudonym) whom Kean described as "a current U.S. intelligence official at the National Air and Space Intelligence Center (NASIC)".[14] Kean wrote that Nell called Grusch "beyond reproach" and that both Nell and "Grey" supported Grusch's claim about a secret UFO retrieval and reverse engineering program.[15][16] Also on June 5, portions of an interview of Grusch by Ross Coulthart aired on NewsNation with additional excerpts appearing on June 11.[2]

Grusch claims that the U.S. federal government maintains a highly secretive UFO retrieval program and possesses multiple spacecraft of non-human origin as well as corpses of deceased pilots.[17][18][19][20] He also claims there is "substantive evidence that white-collar crime" took place to conceal UFO programs and that he had interviewed officials who said that people had been killed to conceal the programs.[21] He stated that he tried to get Sean M. Kirkpatrick, the director of All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) to help him share his claims with Congress. "I expressed some concerns to Dr. Kirkpatrick about a year ago, and told him what I was starting to uncover. And he didn't follow up with me."[22]

Grusch elaborated on his claims in a subsequent interview with the French newspaper Le Parisien on June 7. He said that UFOs could be coming from extra dimensions; that he had spoken with intelligence officials whom the U.S. military had briefed on "football-field" sized crafts; that the U.S. government transferred some crashed UFOs to a defense contractor; and that there was "malevolent activity" by UFOs.[21]

During a July 26, 2023, Congressional hearing, Grusch said that he "was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse-engineering program to which I was denied access"[6] and that he believed that the U.S. government was in possession of UAP based on his interviews with 40 witnesses over four years.[23] He claimed in response to Congressional questions that the U.S. has retrieved "non-human" biological matter from the pilots of the crafts and that this "was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the [UAP] program I talked to, that are currently still on the program".[24] When Representative Tim Burchett asked him if he had "personal knowledge of people who've been harmed or injured in efforts to cover up or conceal" the government's possession of "extraterrestrial technology", Grusch said yes, but that he was not able to provide details except within a SCIF.[25]

BBC Radio 4's The World Tonight on August 3, 2023, interviewed Grusch along with his attorney Charles McCullough, a former Intelligence Community Inspector General. When asked about the U.S. having "intact and partially intact alien vehicles in its possession", Grusch repeated his claims, and McCullough noted that Congress should have "access to the information it needs to properly oversee things going on in the executive branch".[26]

Response from relevant experts

Joshua Semeter of NASA's UAP independent study team and professor of electrical and computer engineering with Boston University's College of Engineering concludes that "without data or material evidence, we are at an impasse on evaluating these claims" and that, "in the long history of claims of extraterrestrial visitors, it is this level of specificity that always seems to be missing".[27][28] Adam Frank, a professor of astrophysics at the University of Rochester, published a critique of the Grusch claims on June 22 with Big Think. Frank writes that he does "not find these claims exciting at all" because they are all "just hearsay" where "a guy says he knows a guy who knows another guy who heard from a guy that the government has alien spaceships".[29] Frank also said of the Grusch account that "it's an extraordinary claim, and it requires extraordinary evidence, none of which we're getting", adding "show me the spaceship".[30]

The Guardian printed an opinion piece by Stuart Clark about Grusch's claims which included questions from three scientists. Harvard University astronomer Avi Loeb, who co-founded the UFO-investigating Galileo Project, noted that nothing extraterrestrial has been observed. Radio astronomer Michael Garrett noted that crashed landings of alien craft "would imply that there must be hundreds of them coming every day, and astronomers simply don't see them". Sara Russell, a planetary scientist from the Natural History Museum in London, said that, "if you give me an alloy, it would take me less than half an hour to tell you what elements are in it", and that "it should be easy to understand whether something falling to Earth is man-made or extraterrestrial, and if it is the latter, whether it is naturally occurring or not".[31]

Greg Eghigian, a history professor at Pennsylvania State University and expert in the history of UFOs as it occurs in the context of public fascination,[32] notes that there have been many instances over recent decades in the U.S. of people "who previously worked in some kind of federal department" coming forward to make "bombshell allegations" about the truth regarding UFOs with the whistleblower claims by Grusch fitting this pattern.[33] Eghigian describes the 1940s–50s media enthusiasm about flying saucers, and comments that the successful books on the subject by authors Donald Keyhoe, Frank Scully, and Gerald Heard "provided the model for a new kind of public figure: the crusading whistleblower dedicated to breaking the silence over the alien origins of unidentified flying objects."[34] Since then all these similarly credentialed claimants have been unable to provide any further corroboration.[34] Eghigian said that "a new kind of sobriety needs to be interjected here" and that the Grusch story "ups the ante" but is "very hard to take seriously unless we start getting some real evidence that's of a forensic nature to prove these things".[30]

Seth Shostak, the senior astronomer at the SETI Institute writing on MSNBC.com about Grusch's claims, said that the claims are extraordinary, before asking, "But where is the evidence? It's MIA. Neither Grusch nor anyone else claiming to have knowledge of secret government UAP programs has ever been able to publicly produce convincing photos showing alien hardware splayed across the landscape. And remember, we're not talking about a Cessna that plowed into a wheat field. We're talking about, presumably, an alien interstellar rocket, capable of bridging trillions of miles of space, and sporting technology that is obviously alien".[35] Shostak concluded that, "from the standpoint of science, there's still no good evidence [that extraterrestrials are visiting the Earth], only an 'argument from authority'".[35] Michael Shermer, publisher of Skeptic magazine, said of the July 26, 2023, congressional hearing that "it's astonishing it's come this far without any real evidence, without anybody in the scientific community making an appearance" and "we are still seeing not a shred of physical evidence".[36]

The physicist and cosmologist Sean M. Carroll said of Grusch's claims about non-human visitors, "the evidence is laughable". Grusch was "talking about the holographic principle and extra dimensions and stuff like that" which should "set off your alarm bells," he said. He concluded that Grusch "has all of the vibes of a complete crackpot".[37]

Laurie Leshin, Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) director for NASA, when asked by reporter in August 2023 if she had "seen spacecraft made from outside of this world", replied "Absolutely not. No." with a laugh and head shake.[38]

Physicist and popular science writer Michio Kaku told NewsNation that "so far we have not seen the smoking gun" to prove any of Grusch's claims. However, he also suggested that "the burden of proof has shifted, now the Pentagon has to prove these things aren't extra-terrestrial". That prompted Real Clear Science editor Ross Pomeroy to comment, "no, the burden of proof has not shifted. Aliens are not the default explanation when a simpler explanation readily does the job". According to Pomeroy, "Kaku is seriously jeopardizing his reputation and misleading the public through his unscientific new stance on UFOs."[39][40]

On an interview with Coulthart for NewsNation, Timothy Gallaudet, a former U.S. Navy admiral and a former Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Oceans and Atmosphere, supported Grusch's claims.[41]

United States government responses

Department of Defense and NASA statements

White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre referred questions about Grusch's complaint to the Department of Defense (DoD).[42] In a statement, Sue Gough, spokesperson for the Pentagon, said: "To date, AARO (All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office) has not discovered any verifiable information to substantiate claims that any programs regarding the possession or reverse-engineering of any extraterrestrial materials have existed in the past or exist currently. AARO is committed to following the data and its investigation wherever it leads."[13][43]

General Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, gave an interview to The Washington Times on August 6, 2023, in which he stated that he had never encountered evidence that would verify the claims made by Grusch regarding "quote-unquote 'aliens' or that there's some sort of cover-up program". Milley added that he was unsurprised that such rumors would circulate and be believed by some within an organization as large as the U.S. military.[44][45]

NASA stated: "One of NASA's key priorities is the search for life elsewhere in the universe, but so far, NASA has not found any credible evidence of extraterrestrial life and there is no evidence that UAPs are extraterrestrial. However, NASA is exploring the solar system and beyond to help us answer fundamental questions, including whether we are alone in the universe."[46]

Congressional action and comments from members

In response to Grusch's claims, Representative Mike Turner, the chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, said, "every decade there's been individuals who've said the United States has such pieces of unidentified flying objects that are from outer space" and that "there's no evidence of this and certainly it would be quite a conspiracy for this to be maintained, especially at this level".[47] Representatives Anna Paulina Luna and Tim Burchett were tasked with organizing a hearing in response to the Grusch claims on behalf of the House Oversight Committee. This took place on July 26, 2023.[48][49][50][11][47]

Senator Lindsey Graham found the claims unreasonable, saying, "If we'd really found this stuff, there's no way you could keep it from coming out".[51] Senator Josh Hawley said, "I'm not surprised, necessarily, by these latest allegations, because it sounds pretty close to what they kind of grudgingly admitted to us in the briefing".[11][51] Some senators, though not concerned about Grusch's specific claims, were concerned that Congress might not have been briefed on special access programs.[11] Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, who led a Senate hearing on UFOs in April 2023, said she intends to hold a hearing to assess whether "rogue SAP programs" existed "that no one is providing oversight for".[11] Senator Marco Rubio, vice-chair of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence said, "there are people who have come forward to share information with our committee over the last couple of years" with "first-hand knowledge" and that they were "potentially some of the same people perhaps" referred to by Grusch.[52][53]

Following the July 26 hearing with Grusch as a witness, a bipartisan group of U.S. representatives called for the formation of a select committee on UAPs with subpoena power.[54][55]

In July 2023, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Senator Mike Rounds led a proposed 64-page amendment to the 2024 National Defence Authorization Act, named the UAP Disclosure Act 2023, which proposes wider access to records of UAP and federal government ownership of any "recovered technologies of unknown origin".[56][57][58] The enrolled bill directs the National Archives to collect government documents about "unidentified anomalous phenomena, technologies of unknown origin, and non-human intelligence".[59]

2023 House Committee Oversight and Accountability hearing

On July 26, 2023, Grusch testified before the United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability. The representatives present included Tim Burchett and Anna Paulina Luna.[60] He did so alongside Ryan Graves, a retired fighter pilot, and David Fravor, a retired U.S. Navy commander.[61] Fravor gave a first-hand account of his involvement in a 2004 incident released in the Pentagon UFO videos involving his fighter jet and a UFO, and Grusch repeated his previous claims under questioning from house representatives.[62]

Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez asked the three witnesses, "If you were me, where would you look?" regarding answers to UAP questions and evidence to validate his claims. Grusch replied, "I'd be happy to give you that in a closed environment. I can tell you specifically."[61] Since the hearing, several lawmakers have said that they want to hear more from Grusch in a sensitive compartmented information facility (SCIF), however, according to Representative Burchett, officials have informed the lawmakers "that Grusch doesn't currently have security clearance to discuss the issues in a SCIF".[63]

Following the Congressional hearing, AARO's director Sean Kirkpatrick wrote on his LinkedIn page that, "contrary to assertions made in the hearing", Grusch "has refused to speak with AARO" so that some details said to have been given to Congress had not been provided to his office and also that the hearing was "insulting ...to the officers of the Department of Defense and Intelligence Community who chose to join AARO, many with not unreasonable anxieties about the career risks this would entail".[64][65] A Pentagon spokesperson told reporters that the post was Kirkpatrick's "personal opinions expressed in his capacity as a private citizen," and declined to comment on the content of the post.[66]

Sean Kirkpatrick

At the time that Grusch made his public claims, physicist and intelligence officer Sean Kirkpatrick was serving as the first head of the US Department of Defense's All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) tasked with investigating UFOs and related phenomena. Grusch initially said he had "expressed some concerns to Dr. Kirkpatrick about a year ago, and told him what I was starting to uncover. And he didn't follow up with me."[67] To which Kirkpatrick responded that Grusch had "refused to speak with AARO". And also that the 2023 Congressional hearing was "insulting ...to the officers of the Department of Defense and Intelligence Community who chose to join AARO, many with not unreasonable anxieties about the career risks this would entail".[68][69]

In 2024, after retiring from AARO, Kirkpatrick wrote an opinion piece for Scientific American in which he said that the US Government UFO coverup allegations "derive from inadvertent or unauthorized disclosures of legitimate U.S. programs or related R&D that have nothing to do with extraterrestrial issues or technology. Some are misrepresentations, and some derive from pure, unsupported beliefs. In many respects, the narrative is a textbook example of circular reporting, with each person relaying what they heard, but the information often ultimately being sourced to the same small group of individuals." Describing it as “a small group of interconnected believers and others with possibly less than honest intentions,” who promote a “whirlwind of tall tales, fabrication and secondhand or thirdhand retellings".[70]

In a 2024 interview with Peter Bergen, Kirkpatrick said about Grusch:

He's one of the individuals that I think this kind of, this core group of people have influenced him, have told him this information. He may have misinterpreted things that people have said, or he may have just fallen into the influence of what these folks have been telling him. At either event, at the time I left he had not come in to speak to AARO.[71]: 32:20 

Burgen further characterized what Kirkpatrick was saying as an ironic twist on conspiracy theories about government cover ups. "The true believer about UFO's thinks that there is a government conspiracy to hide real evidence of aliens. What Kirkpatrick is saying is the actual conspiracy is being carried out by a group of UFO true believers to get the government involved in the business of investigating aliens."[71]: 33:00  Burgen suggested to Kirkpatrick that this might be, in Pentagon jargon, a "self-licking ice cream cone", a non-productive endeavor that only perpetuates its own existence. To which Kirkpatrick responded "That is a self licking ice cream cone, exactly."[71]: 33:28 

Media reporting on Grusch's claims

Connections to studies funded by Robert Bigelow

Keith Kloor writing for the Scientific American on August 25, 2023, draws a line from "these outlandish assertions" by Grusch "to the vast repository of so-called studies" funded over past years by Robert Bigelow.[72] Kloor also points to the specific references to "a football field–sized UFO" showing up in one of the claims made by Grusch and in past claims by Bigelow.[72]

Reporting on psychiatric treatment received by Grusch

Ken Klippenstein reported in The Intercept, that Grusch was twice committed after incidents in 2014 and 2018 that involved drunkenness and suicidal comments. Police records mentioned post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). After the incident in 2018, Grusch was placed under an emergency custody order and transported to an ER. A mental health specialist requested a temporary detention order, whereupon Grusch was transferred to Loudoun Adult Medical Psychiatric Services, an inpatient program in the Inova Loudoun Cornwall Medical Campus in Leesburg. The article in The Intercept noted that "Grusch's ability to keep his security clearance" despite this history "appears to contrast with the government's treatment of other employees".[1][73]

News stories and commentary

Related to the June 11, 2023, broadcast of more Coulthart interview content, NewsNation included multiple voices, such as skeptical investigator Mick West. He was interviewed on June 8 and 11 and said, "I don't think what [Grusch is] saying is accurate" and that, while "it's possible he's believing what he's saying, it's an incredible story that really needs some actual verification".[74][75]

The British journalist Nick Pope, who previously ran the British Ministry of Defense "UFO Desk", initially expressed hope for confirmation or disconfirmation of Grusch's claims, but now that Grusch has lost his security clearance and there is still no "smoking gun" Pope says it is difficult to see how the claims could be confirmed.[46][16] He added that while he was at the Ministry of Defense if the US government had acquired craft and bodies, "they didn't tell the UK.[76]

Writing for The Atlantic on June 7, Marina Koren pointed out that the case fits a long pattern of previous unprovable claims and that, "so far, the best evidence [Grusch has] come up with, besides his own word, is the government's denial".[12] Matt Laslo, writing for Wired on June 13, described the sympathetic hearing of Grusch's claims by some members of Congress as an indication that in "our strange new political universe of alternative facts turned dystopian reality, once-fringe notions have built-in fan bases in today's Capitol".[11] The conservative political commentator Tucker Carlson gave publicity to the claims in a video posted to Twitter,[77] and a video, published to YouTube, in which he interviewed Grusch.[78] Tom Rogan, writing in the Washington Examiner on June 12, was skeptical regarding the extent of Grusch's claims, but said that they should be further investigated.[79]

Outside the United States, the story received attention from multiple foreign mainstream news outlets, in such countries as Denmark,[80][81][82][83] Germany,[84][85] Austria,[86] France,[87][88] the Netherlands,[89] Sweden,[90][91] Norway,[92][93] Croatia,[94][95] and Turkey.[96] The 2023 House Committee hearing at which Grusch testified brought much wider coverage to his claims including major international outlets like the BBC, CNN, and others.[60][62][97]

Disinformation campaign allegations from media pundits

Accusations of an intentional UFO disinformation campaign have been a feature of the coverage of this story. Grusch said intentional disinformation was being pushed by the US government to cast doubt on the veracity of "non-human" (or alien) claims such as his.[17][98] Adam Gabbatt of The Guardian described Grusch's position as "a common conspiracy trope in the UFO community".[20] Others have suggested a different sort of intentional campaign that fed Grusch disinformation about aliens to encourage the public to believe in the extraordinary claim of aliens and crashed ships for ulterior motives.[99][100] Gareth Nicholson, editor for the South China Morning Post, explored some of the military and technological reasons for the purported existence of such a campaign, "the current UAP flap could be an attempt by the US military to engage in a disinformation campaign to disguise real aerospace breakthroughs or an attempt to flush out advanced technologies held by rivals such as Russia and China".[101]

Additional responses from media pundits

Andrew Prokop, a political news correspondent for Vox, wrote on June 10 that, "skeptics question whether Grusch is just repeating tall tales that have long circulated through the UFO-believing community, suggesting he may be just a gullible sap (if not an outright fabulist)." Prokop went on to state that, "mainstream media sources have so far remained wary of Grusch – The New York Times, Washington Post, and Politico were all offered his story but none thought it was publishable. The Debrief, which published it, is a notably UFO-friendly outlet, as are Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal, the two journalists who wrote the story. And purported bombshells like this in the past have tended to fizzle out."[102] Sean Thomas expressed confusion in his opinion piece for The Spectator that, preceding Grusch, there have been others trying to convince officials and the public that UFOs are worthy of serious considerations including some who themselves were high-ranking U.S. officials.[103] The New York Times columnist Ross Douthat noted in a June 10 opinion piece that one interpretation of the flap is that parts of the U.S. government see benefit in promoting belief in UFOs, noting similarities between Grusch's claims and the claims of Garry Nolan, Stanford pathology professor and longtime proponent of the UFO extraterrestrial hypothesis, among others.[99] (According to Leslie Kean, Nolan knows and respects Grusch.[14]) Matt Stieb, writing for New York, described Grusch's claims in Coulthart's interview as "crazy".[21]

Ezra Klein, a columnist with The New York Times, posted a podcast interview with Kean on June 20, 2023, noting that "the main reactions" to Kean's recent story about Grusch "have been to either embrace it as definitive truth or dismiss it out of hand."[14] Klein asked a series of skeptical questions. Kean agreed that it is difficult to believe that the federal government could maintain secrecy for such a program for several decades.[14]

Steven Greenstreet, a documentary filmmaker and an investigative journalist, criticized Grusch in a video with the New York Post for previously attending UFO conventions and associating with the Skinwalker Ranch ufologists Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp, whom he met at a Star Trek Convention and both of whom sat behind Grusch at the July 26 Hearing and whom Representative Tim Burchett recognized from the dais and read their statements into the record.[104][105][106]

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External links

  • US House Oversight and Accountability subcommittee Hearing on Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena – via C-SPAN

April 15, 2024
david, grusch, whistleblower, claims, 2023, david, grusch, united, states, force, usaf, officer, former, intelligence, official, interviewed, journalists, testified, house, representatives, hearing, grusch, claimed, that, federal, government, maintains, secret. In 2023 David Grusch a United States Air Force USAF officer and former intelligence official was interviewed by journalists and testified in a U S House of Representatives hearing Grusch claimed that the U S federal government maintains a secretive UFO or UAP recovery and reverse engineering program and that it is in possession of non human spacecraft along with their dead pilots In 2022 Grusch filed a whistleblower complaint with the U S Office of the Intelligence Community Inspector General ICIG to support his plan to share classified information with the U S Senate Select Committee on Intelligence He also filed a complaint alleging retaliation by his superiors over a similar complaint he made in 2021 July 26 2023 David Grusch testifies before the U S House Subcommittee on National Security the Border and Foreign Affairs in the hearing titled Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Implications on National Security Public Safety and Government Transparency He claims to have viewed documents reporting that Benito Mussolini s government recovered a non human spacecraft in 1933 which the Vatican and the Five Eyes assisted the U S in procuring in 1944 or 1945 Grusch claims that American citizens have been harmed and killed as a part of governmental efforts to cover up that information In response the National Aeronautics and Space Administration NASA and the U S Department of Defense DoD stated that no evidence of extraterrestrial life had been discovered and that there was no verifiable information about the U S government or private aerospace companies possessing and reverse engineering any extraterrestrial materials In a testimony given to the U S House Committee on Oversight and Accountability in July 2023 Grusch repeated several of his claims under oath Testimonies were also delivered by Ryan Graves a retired fighter pilot and David Fravor a retired U S Navy commander on their experiences related to UFOs Grusch testified that he could not elaborate further in public but offered to provide details to representatives in a sensitive compartmented information facility SCIF Contents 1 Background 2 Grusch s public claims 3 Response from relevant experts 4 United States government responses 4 1 Department of Defense and NASA statements 4 2 Congressional action and comments from members 4 3 2023 House Committee Oversight and Accountability hearing 5 Sean Kirkpatrick 6 Media reporting on Grusch s claims 6 1 Connections to studies funded by Robert Bigelow 6 2 Reporting on psychiatric treatment received by Grusch 6 3 News stories and commentary 6 4 Disinformation campaign allegations from media pundits 6 5 Additional responses from media pundits 7 References 8 External linksBackgroundSee also Unidentified flying object 20th century and after UFO conspiracy theories Disclosure and Investigation of UFO reports by the United States government David Charles Grusch is a decorated Afghanistan combat veteran and a former USAF intelligence officer 1 who worked in the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency NGA and the National Reconnaissance Office NRO 2 3 4 5 From 2019 to 2021 he was the representative of the NRO to the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force 3 4 6 From late 2021 to July 2022 he was the co lead for UAP analysis at the NGA and its representative to the task force 2 He assisted in drafting the National Defense Authorization Act of 2023 7 which includes provisions for reporting of UFOs including whistleblower protections and exemptions to non disclosure orders and agreements 8 9 10 Congressional interest in UFO sightings immediately prior to Grusch s public claims surrounded questions about the four objects that the Air Force shot down in February 2023 11 Grusch s public claims nbsp Sean Kirkpatrick director of the All domain Anomaly Resolution Office tasked with investigating and reporting to Congress on UAPs nbsp Ross Coulthart conductor of the June 5 interview with David Grusch on NewsNation On June 5 2023 independent journalists Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal provided a story detailing Grusch s claims of a UFO coverup by the government to The Debrief a website that describes itself as self funded and specializing in frontier science 12 The New York Times and Politico declined to publish the story while The Washington Post was taking more time to conduct fact checking than Kean and Blumenthal felt could be afforded because according to Kean people on the internet were spreading stories Dave was getting harassing phone calls and we felt the only way to protect him was to get the story out 13 According to Kean she vetted Grusch by interviewing Karl Nell a retired Army colonel who was also on the UFO task force and Jonathan Grey a pseudonym whom Kean described as a current U S intelligence official at the National Air and Space Intelligence Center NASIC 14 Kean wrote that Nell called Grusch beyond reproach and that both Nell and Grey supported Grusch s claim about a secret UFO retrieval and reverse engineering program 15 16 Also on June 5 portions of an interview of Grusch by Ross Coulthart aired on NewsNation with additional excerpts appearing on June 11 2 Grusch claims that the U S federal government maintains a highly secretive UFO retrieval program and possesses multiple spacecraft of non human origin as well as corpses of deceased pilots 17 18 19 20 He also claims there is substantive evidence that white collar crime took place to conceal UFO programs and that he had interviewed officials who said that people had been killed to conceal the programs 21 He stated that he tried to get Sean M Kirkpatrick the director of All domain Anomaly Resolution Office AARO to help him share his claims with Congress I expressed some concerns to Dr Kirkpatrick about a year ago and told him what I was starting to uncover And he didn t follow up with me 22 Grusch elaborated on his claims in a subsequent interview with the French newspaper Le Parisien on June 7 He said that UFOs could be coming from extra dimensions that he had spoken with intelligence officials whom the U S military had briefed on football field sized crafts that the U S government transferred some crashed UFOs to a defense contractor and that there was malevolent activity by UFOs 21 During a July 26 2023 Congressional hearing Grusch said that he was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program to which I was denied access 6 and that he believed that the U S government was in possession of UAP based on his interviews with 40 witnesses over four years 23 He claimed in response to Congressional questions that the U S has retrieved non human biological matter from the pilots of the crafts and that this was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the UAP program I talked to that are currently still on the program 24 When Representative Tim Burchett asked him if he had personal knowledge of people who ve been harmed or injured in efforts to cover up or conceal the government s possession of extraterrestrial technology Grusch said yes but that he was not able to provide details except within a SCIF 25 BBC Radio 4 s The World Tonight on August 3 2023 interviewed Grusch along with his attorney Charles McCullough a former Intelligence Community Inspector General When asked about the U S having intact and partially intact alien vehicles in its possession Grusch repeated his claims and McCullough noted that Congress should have access to the information it needs to properly oversee things going on in the executive branch 26 Response from relevant expertsJoshua Semeter of NASA s UAP independent study team and professor of electrical and computer engineering with Boston University s College of Engineering concludes that without data or material evidence we are at an impasse on evaluating these claims and that in the long history of claims of extraterrestrial visitors it is this level of specificity that always seems to be missing 27 28 Adam Frank a professor of astrophysics at the University of Rochester published a critique of the Grusch claims on June 22 with Big Think Frank writes that he does not find these claims exciting at all because they are all just hearsay where a guy says he knows a guy who knows another guy who heard from a guy that the government has alien spaceships 29 Frank also said of the Grusch account that it s an extraordinary claim and it requires extraordinary evidence none of which we re getting adding show me the spaceship 30 The Guardian printed an opinion piece by Stuart Clark about Grusch s claims which included questions from three scientists Harvard University astronomer Avi Loeb who co founded the UFO investigating Galileo Project noted that nothing extraterrestrial has been observed Radio astronomer Michael Garrett noted that crashed landings of alien craft would imply that there must be hundreds of them coming every day and astronomers simply don t see them Sara Russell a planetary scientist from the Natural History Museum in London said that if you give me an alloy it would take me less than half an hour to tell you what elements are in it and that it should be easy to understand whether something falling to Earth is man made or extraterrestrial and if it is the latter whether it is naturally occurring or not 31 Greg Eghigian a history professor at Pennsylvania State University and expert in the history of UFOs as it occurs in the context of public fascination 32 notes that there have been many instances over recent decades in the U S of people who previously worked in some kind of federal department coming forward to make bombshell allegations about the truth regarding UFOs with the whistleblower claims by Grusch fitting this pattern 33 Eghigian describes the 1940s 50s media enthusiasm about flying saucers and comments that the successful books on the subject by authors Donald Keyhoe Frank Scully and Gerald Heard provided the model for a new kind of public figure the crusading whistleblower dedicated to breaking the silence over the alien origins of unidentified flying objects 34 Since then all these similarly credentialed claimants have been unable to provide any further corroboration 34 Eghigian said that a new kind of sobriety needs to be interjected here and that the Grusch story ups the ante but is very hard to take seriously unless we start getting some real evidence that s of a forensic nature to prove these things 30 Seth Shostak the senior astronomer at the SETI Institute writing on MSNBC com about Grusch s claims said that the claims are extraordinary before asking But where is the evidence It s MIA Neither Grusch nor anyone else claiming to have knowledge of secret government UAP programs has ever been able to publicly produce convincing photos showing alien hardware splayed across the landscape And remember we re not talking about a Cessna that plowed into a wheat field We re talking about presumably an alien interstellar rocket capable of bridging trillions of miles of space and sporting technology that is obviously alien 35 Shostak concluded that from the standpoint of science there s still no good evidence that extraterrestrials are visiting the Earth only an argument from authority 35 Michael Shermer publisher of Skeptic magazine said of the July 26 2023 congressional hearing that it s astonishing it s come this far without any real evidence without anybody in the scientific community making an appearance and we are still seeing not a shred of physical evidence 36 The physicist and cosmologist Sean M Carroll said of Grusch s claims about non human visitors the evidence is laughable Grusch was talking about the holographic principle and extra dimensions and stuff like that which should set off your alarm bells he said He concluded that Grusch has all of the vibes of a complete crackpot 37 Laurie Leshin Jet Propulsion Laboratory JPL director for NASA when asked by reporter in August 2023 if she had seen spacecraft made from outside of this world replied Absolutely not No with a laugh and head shake 38 Physicist and popular science writer Michio Kaku told NewsNation that so far we have not seen the smoking gun to prove any of Grusch s claims However he also suggested that the burden of proof has shifted now the Pentagon has to prove these things aren t extra terrestrial That prompted Real Clear Science editor Ross Pomeroy to comment no the burden of proof has not shifted Aliens are not the default explanation when a simpler explanation readily does the job According to Pomeroy Kaku is seriously jeopardizing his reputation and misleading the public through his unscientific new stance on UFOs 39 40 On an interview with Coulthart for NewsNation Timothy Gallaudet a former U S Navy admiral and a former Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Oceans and Atmosphere supported Grusch s claims 41 United States government responsesDepartment of Defense and NASA statements White House Press Secretary Karine Jean Pierre referred questions about Grusch s complaint to the Department of Defense DoD 42 In a statement Sue Gough spokesperson for the Pentagon said To date AARO All domain Anomaly Resolution Office has not discovered any verifiable information to substantiate claims that any programs regarding the possession or reverse engineering of any extraterrestrial materials have existed in the past or exist currently AARO is committed to following the data and its investigation wherever it leads 13 43 General Mark Milley the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff gave an interview to The Washington Times on August 6 2023 in which he stated that he had never encountered evidence that would verify the claims made by Grusch regarding quote unquote aliens or that there s some sort of cover up program Milley added that he was unsurprised that such rumors would circulate and be believed by some within an organization as large as the U S military 44 45 NASA stated One of NASA s key priorities is the search for life elsewhere in the universe but so far NASA has not found any credible evidence of extraterrestrial life and there is no evidence that UAPs are extraterrestrial However NASA is exploring the solar system and beyond to help us answer fundamental questions including whether we are alone in the universe 46 Congressional action and comments from members In response to Grusch s claims Representative Mike Turner the chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence said every decade there s been individuals who ve said the United States has such pieces of unidentified flying objects that are from outer space and that there s no evidence of this and certainly it would be quite a conspiracy for this to be maintained especially at this level 47 Representatives Anna Paulina Luna and Tim Burchett were tasked with organizing a hearing in response to the Grusch claims on behalf of the House Oversight Committee This took place on July 26 2023 48 49 50 11 47 Senator Lindsey Graham found the claims unreasonable saying If we d really found this stuff there s no way you could keep it from coming out 51 Senator Josh Hawley said I m not surprised necessarily by these latest allegations because it sounds pretty close to what they kind of grudgingly admitted to us in the briefing 11 51 Some senators though not concerned about Grusch s specific claims were concerned that Congress might not have been briefed on special access programs 11 Senator Kirsten Gillibrand who led a Senate hearing on UFOs in April 2023 said she intends to hold a hearing to assess whether rogue SAP programs existed that no one is providing oversight for 11 Senator Marco Rubio vice chair of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence said there are people who have come forward to share information with our committee over the last couple of years with first hand knowledge and that they were potentially some of the same people perhaps referred to by Grusch 52 53 Following the July 26 hearing with Grusch as a witness a bipartisan group of U S representatives called for the formation of a select committee on UAPs with subpoena power 54 55 In July 2023 Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Senator Mike Rounds led a proposed 64 page amendment to the 2024 National Defence Authorization Act named the UAP Disclosure Act 2023 which proposes wider access to records of UAP and federal government ownership of any recovered technologies of unknown origin 56 57 58 The enrolled bill directs the National Archives to collect government documents about unidentified anomalous phenomena technologies of unknown origin and non human intelligence 59 2023 House Committee Oversight and Accountability hearing On July 26 2023 Grusch testified before the United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability The representatives present included Tim Burchett and Anna Paulina Luna 60 He did so alongside Ryan Graves a retired fighter pilot and David Fravor a retired U S Navy commander 61 Fravor gave a first hand account of his involvement in a 2004 incident released in the Pentagon UFO videos involving his fighter jet and a UFO and Grusch repeated his previous claims under questioning from house representatives 62 Representative Alexandria Ocasio Cortez asked the three witnesses If you were me where would you look regarding answers to UAP questions and evidence to validate his claims Grusch replied I d be happy to give you that in a closed environment I can tell you specifically 61 Since the hearing several lawmakers have said that they want to hear more from Grusch in a sensitive compartmented information facility SCIF however according to Representative Burchett officials have informed the lawmakers that Grusch doesn t currently have security clearance to discuss the issues in a SCIF 63 Following the Congressional hearing AARO s director Sean Kirkpatrick wrote on his LinkedIn page that contrary to assertions made in the hearing Grusch has refused to speak with AARO so that some details said to have been given to Congress had not been provided to his office and also that the hearing was insulting to the officers of the Department of Defense and Intelligence Community who chose to join AARO many with not unreasonable anxieties about the career risks this would entail 64 65 A Pentagon spokesperson told reporters that the post was Kirkpatrick s personal opinions expressed in his capacity as a private citizen and declined to comment on the content of the post 66 Sean KirkpatrickAt the time that Grusch made his public claims physicist and intelligence officer Sean Kirkpatrick was serving as the first head of the US Department of Defense s All domain Anomaly Resolution Office AARO tasked with investigating UFOs and related phenomena Grusch initially said he had expressed some concerns to Dr Kirkpatrick about a year ago and told him what I was starting to uncover And he didn t follow up with me 67 To which Kirkpatrick responded that Grusch had refused to speak with AARO And also that the 2023 Congressional hearing was insulting to the officers of the Department of Defense and Intelligence Community who chose to join AARO many with not unreasonable anxieties about the career risks this would entail 68 69 In 2024 after retiring from AARO Kirkpatrick wrote an opinion piece for Scientific American in which he said that the US Government UFO coverup allegations derive from inadvertent or unauthorized disclosures of legitimate U S programs or related R amp D that have nothing to do with extraterrestrial issues or technology Some are misrepresentations and some derive from pure unsupported beliefs In many respects the narrative is a textbook example of circular reporting with each person relaying what they heard but the information often ultimately being sourced to the same small group of individuals Describing it as a small group of interconnected believers and others with possibly less than honest intentions who promote a whirlwind of tall tales fabrication and secondhand or thirdhand retellings 70 In a 2024 interview with Peter Bergen Kirkpatrick said about Grusch He s one of the individuals that I think this kind of this core group of people have influenced him have told him this information He may have misinterpreted things that people have said or he may have just fallen into the influence of what these folks have been telling him At either event at the time I left he had not come in to speak to AARO 71 32 20 Burgen further characterized what Kirkpatrick was saying as an ironic twist on conspiracy theories about government cover ups The true believer about UFO s thinks that there is a government conspiracy to hide real evidence of aliens What Kirkpatrick is saying is the actual conspiracy is being carried out by a group of UFO true believers to get the government involved in the business of investigating aliens 71 33 00 Burgen suggested to Kirkpatrick that this might be in Pentagon jargon a self licking ice cream cone a non productive endeavor that only perpetuates its own existence To which Kirkpatrick responded That is a self licking ice cream cone exactly 71 33 28 Media reporting on Grusch s claimsConnections to studies funded by Robert Bigelow Keith Kloor writing for the Scientific American on August 25 2023 draws a line from these outlandish assertions by Grusch to the vast repository of so called studies funded over past years by Robert Bigelow 72 Kloor also points to the specific references to a football field sized UFO showing up in one of the claims made by Grusch and in past claims by Bigelow 72 Reporting on psychiatric treatment received by Grusch Ken Klippenstein reported in The Intercept that Grusch was twice committed after incidents in 2014 and 2018 that involved drunkenness and suicidal comments Police records mentioned post traumatic stress disorder PTSD After the incident in 2018 Grusch was placed under an emergency custody order and transported to an ER A mental health specialist requested a temporary detention order whereupon Grusch was transferred to Loudoun Adult Medical Psychiatric Services an inpatient program in the Inova Loudoun Cornwall Medical Campus in Leesburg The article in The Intercept noted that Grusch s ability to keep his security clearance despite this history appears to contrast with the government s treatment of other employees 1 73 News stories and commentary Related to the June 11 2023 broadcast of more Coulthart interview content NewsNation included multiple voices such as skeptical investigator Mick West He was interviewed on June 8 and 11 and said I don t think what Grusch is saying is accurate and that while it s possible he s believing what he s saying it s an incredible story that really needs some actual verification 74 75 The British journalist Nick Pope who previously ran the British Ministry of Defense UFO Desk initially expressed hope for confirmation or disconfirmation of Grusch s claims but now that Grusch has lost his security clearance and there is still no smoking gun Pope says it is difficult to see how the claims could be confirmed 46 16 He added that while he was at the Ministry of Defense if the US government had acquired craft and bodies they didn t tell the UK 76 Writing for The Atlantic on June 7 Marina Koren pointed out that the case fits a long pattern of previous unprovable claims and that so far the best evidence Grusch has come up with besides his own word is the government s denial 12 Matt Laslo writing for Wired on June 13 described the sympathetic hearing of Grusch s claims by some members of Congress as an indication that in our strange new political universe of alternative facts turned dystopian reality once fringe notions have built in fan bases in today s Capitol 11 The conservative political commentator Tucker Carlson gave publicity to the claims in a video posted to Twitter 77 and a video published to YouTube in which he interviewed Grusch 78 Tom Rogan writing in the Washington Examiner on June 12 was skeptical regarding the extent of Grusch s claims but said that they should be further investigated 79 Outside the United States the story received attention from multiple foreign mainstream news outlets in such countries as Denmark 80 81 82 83 Germany 84 85 Austria 86 France 87 88 the Netherlands 89 Sweden 90 91 Norway 92 93 Croatia 94 95 and Turkey 96 The 2023 House Committee hearing at which Grusch testified brought much wider coverage to his claims including major international outlets like the BBC CNN and others 60 62 97 Disinformation campaign allegations from media pundits Accusations of an intentional UFO disinformation campaign have been a feature of the coverage of this story Grusch said intentional disinformation was being pushed by the US government to cast doubt on the veracity of non human or alien claims such as his 17 98 Adam Gabbatt of The Guardian described Grusch s position as a common conspiracy trope in the UFO community 20 Others have suggested a different sort of intentional campaign that fed Grusch disinformation about aliens to encourage the public to believe in the extraordinary claim of aliens and crashed ships for ulterior motives 99 100 Gareth Nicholson editor for the South China Morning Post explored some of the military and technological reasons for the purported existence of such a campaign the current UAP flap could be an attempt by the US military to engage in a disinformation campaign to disguise real aerospace breakthroughs or an attempt to flush out advanced technologies held by rivals such as Russia and China 101 Additional responses from media pundits Andrew Prokop a political news correspondent for Vox wrote on June 10 that skeptics question whether Grusch is just repeating tall tales that have long circulated through the UFO believing community suggesting he may be just a gullible sap if not an outright fabulist Prokop went on to state that mainstream media sources have so far remained wary of Grusch The New York Times Washington Post and Politico were all offered his story but none thought it was publishable The Debrief which published it is a notably UFO friendly outlet as are Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal the two journalists who wrote the story And purported bombshells like this in the past have tended to fizzle out 102 Sean Thomas expressed confusion in his opinion piece for The Spectator that preceding Grusch there have been others trying to convince officials and the public that UFOs are worthy of serious considerations including some who themselves were high ranking U S officials 103 The New York Times columnist Ross Douthat noted in a June 10 opinion piece that one interpretation of the flap is that parts of the U S government see benefit in promoting belief in UFOs noting similarities between Grusch s claims and the claims of Garry Nolan Stanford pathology professor and longtime proponent of the UFO extraterrestrial 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2023 Retrieved August 9 2023 Subcommittee on National Security the Border and Foreign Affairs Hearing archived from the original on August 7 2023 retrieved August 9 2023 23 39External linksUS House Oversight and Accountability subcommittee Hearing on Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena via C SPAN Retrieved from https en wikipedia org w index php title David Grusch UFO whistleblower claims amp oldid 1217572842, wikipedia, wiki, book, books, library,

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