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Godwin's law

May 03, 2024

Not to be confused with Goodhart's law.

Godwin's law, short for Godwin's law (or rule) of Nazi analogies,[1] is an Internet adage asserting: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[2]

An attendee at the Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear wearing a T-shirt implicitly referencing Godwin's Law: "I disagree with you but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler."

History edit

Promulgated by the American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990,[1] Godwin's law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions.[3] He stated that he introduced Godwin's law in 1990 as an experiment in memetics,[1] specifically to address the ubiquity of such comparisons which he believes regrettably trivialize the Holocaust.[4][5] Later, it was applied to any threaded online discussion, such as Internet forums, chat rooms, and social-media comment threads, as well as to speeches, articles, and other rhetoric[6][7] where reductio ad Hitlerum occurs.

In 2012, Godwin's law became an entry in the third edition of the Oxford English Dictionary.[8]

Generalization, corollaries, and usage edit

Godwin's law can be applied mistakenly or abused as a distraction, a diversion, or even censorship, when miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole even when the comparison made by the argument is appropriate.[9] Godwin has criticized the over-application of the adage, claiming that it does not articulate a fallacy, but rather is intended to reduce the frequency of inappropriate and hyperbolic comparisons:[10]

Although deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics, its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical: I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler to think a bit harder about the Holocaust.

In 2021, Harvard researchers published an article showing that the Nazi-comparison phenomenon does not occur with statistically meaningful frequency in Reddit discussions.[11][12]

Godwin's law has many corollaries, some considered more canonical (by being adopted by Godwin himself)[2] than others. For example, many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums have a tradition that, when a Nazi or Hitler comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever made the comparison loses whatever debate is in progress.[13] This idea is itself sometimes mistakenly referred to as Godwin's law.[14]

Godwin rejects the idea that whoever invokes Godwin's law has lost the argument, and suggests that, applied appropriately, the rule "should function less as a conversation ender and more as a conversation starter."[15] In an interview with Time Magazine, Godwin said that making comparisons to Hitler would actually be appropriate under the right circumstances:[16]

I urge people to develop enough perspective to do it thoughtfully. If you think the comparison is valid, and you’ve given it some thought, do it. All I ask you to do is think about the human beings capable of acting very badly. We have to keep the magnitude of those events in mind, and not be glib. Our society needs to be more humane, more civilized and to grow up.

In August 2017, while commenting on the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, Godwin himself endorsed and encouraged social-media users to compare its "alt-right" participants to Nazis.[17][18]

Godwin has denied the need to update or amend the rule. in June 2018, he wrote, in an opinion piece for the Los Angeles Times: "It still serves us as a tool to recognize specious comparisons to Nazism – but also, by contrast, to recognize comparisons that aren't."[15]

See also edit

References edit

  1. ^ a b c Godwin, Mike (October 1, 1994). "Meme, Counter-meme". Wired. Vol. 2, no. 10. Retrieved March 24, 2006.
  2. ^ a b Godwin, Mike (January 12, 1995). . "Net Culture – Humor" archive section. w2.EFF.org. Electronic Frontier Foundation. Archived from the original on August 29, 2012. Retrieved June 19, 2012.
  3. ^ Godwin, Mike (August 18, 1991). "Re: Nazis (was Re: Card's Article on Homosexuality". Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf-lovers. Usenet: 1991Aug18.215029.19421@eff.org.
  4. ^ McFarlane, Andrew (July 14, 2010). "Is it ever OK to call someone a Nazi?". BBC News Magazine. Retrieved August 4, 2010.
  5. ^ Fishman, Aleisa; Godwin, Mike (September 1, 2011). . Voices on Antisemitism (Podcast). United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. Archived from the original on May 20, 2014.
  6. ^ Goldacre, Ben (September 16, 2010). . bengoldacre – secondary blog. Archived from the original on March 25, 2013.
  7. ^ Stanley, Timothy (March 6, 2014). "Hillary, Putin's no Hitler". "Opinion" department. CNN. Retrieved March 6, 2014.
  8. ^ "Godwin's law". Oxford English Dictionary. Oxford University Press. Retrieved February 27, 2013.
  9. ^ Weigel, David (July 14, 2005). . Reason. Archived from the original on July 15, 2009.
  10. ^ . Jewcy.com. April 30, 2008. Archived from the original on January 15, 2013. Retrieved April 16, 2010.
  11. ^ Harrison, Stephen (January 24, 2022). "Has Godwin's Law, the Rule of Nazi Comparisons, Been Disproved?". Slate. Retrieved April 23, 2022.
  12. ^ Fariello, Gabriele; Jemielniak, Dariusz; Sulkowski, Adam (December 12, 2021). "Does Godwin's law (rule of Nazi analogies) apply in observable reality? An empirical study of selected words in 199 million Reddit posts". New Media & Society. 26. Sage Publishing: 389–404. doi:10.1177/14614448211062070. ISSN 1461-4448. S2CID 245035602.
  13. ^ Chivers, Tom (October 23, 2009). "Internet rules and laws: The top 10, from Godwin to Poe". The Daily Telegraph. London.
  14. ^ Datta, N. (June 20, 2017). "Godwin's Law – How Adolf Hitler Is Mathematically Connected To Internet Forum Discussions". Trove 42. Retrieved February 13, 2024.
  15. ^ a b Godwin, Mike (June 24, 2018). "Op-Ed: Do we need to update Godwin's Law about the probability of comparison to Nazis?". Los Angeles Times. Retrieved July 24, 2020.
  16. ^ Hoffman, Ashley (June 29, 2017). "Should You Call Someone Hitler? Here's What the Man Behind Godwin's Law Thinks". Time. Retrieved February 13, 2024.
  17. ^ Gilbert, Alexandre (August 17, 2017). "Godwin's Law & the Nazi Cosplay Hobbiysts". The Times of Israel.
  18. ^ Mandelbaum, Ryan F. (August 13, 2017). "Godwin of Godwin's Law: 'By All Means, Compare These Shitheads to the Nazis'". Gizmodo. Retrieved December 26, 2023.

Further reading edit

  • Anderson, Nate (September 1, 2011). "No Nazi comparisons? Sounds like something Hitler would say!". Ars Technica. Retrieved September 1, 2011.

External links edit

 
Look up godwin's law in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.
Listen to this article (5 minutes)
 
This audio file was created from a revision of this article dated 1 July 2005 (2005-07-01), and does not reflect subsequent edits.
(Audio help · More spoken articles)
  • Skirvin, Tim (September 15, 1999). . Skirv's Wiki. Archived from the original on October 11, 1999.
  • Sietzman, Michael (December 6, 2017) [2009]. "My Nazi Can Beat Up Your Nazi". Huffington Post.
  • Amira, Dan; Godwin, Mike (March 8, 2013). "Mike Godwin on Godwin's Law, Whether Nazi Comparisons Have Gotten Worse, and Being Compared to Hitler by His Daughter". "Intelligencer" department. New York.

May 03, 2024
godwin, confused, with, goodhart, short, rule, nazi, analogies, internet, adage, asserting, online, discussion, grows, longer, probability, comparison, involving, nazis, hitler, approaches, attendee, rally, restore, sanity, fear, wearing, shirt, implicitly, re. Not to be confused with Goodhart s law Godwin s law short for Godwin s law or rule of Nazi analogies 1 is an Internet adage asserting As an online discussion grows longer the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 2 An attendee at the Rally to Restore Sanity and or Fear wearing a T shirt implicitly referencing Godwin s Law I disagree with you but I m pretty sure you re not Hitler Contents 1 History 2 Generalization corollaries and usage 3 See also 4 References 5 Further reading 6 External linksHistory editPromulgated by the American attorney and author Mike Godwin in 1990 1 Godwin s law originally referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions 3 He stated that he introduced Godwin s law in 1990 as an experiment in memetics 1 specifically to address the ubiquity of such comparisons which he believes regrettably trivialize the Holocaust 4 5 Later it was applied to any threaded online discussion such as Internet forums chat rooms and social media comment threads as well as to speeches articles and other rhetoric 6 7 where reductio ad Hitlerum occurs In 2012 Godwin s law became an entry in the third edition of the Oxford English Dictionary 8 Generalization corollaries and usage editGodwin s law can be applied mistakenly or abused as a distraction a diversion or even censorship when miscasting an opponent s argument as hyperbole even when the comparison made by the argument is appropriate 9 Godwin has criticized the over application of the adage claiming that it does not articulate a fallacy but rather is intended to reduce the frequency of inappropriate and hyperbolic comparisons 10 Although deliberately framed as if it were a law of nature or of mathematics its purpose has always been rhetorical and pedagogical I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler to think a bit harder about the Holocaust In 2021 Harvard researchers published an article showing that the Nazi comparison phenomenon does not occur with statistically meaningful frequency in Reddit discussions 11 12 Godwin s law has many corollaries some considered more canonical by being adopted by Godwin himself 2 than others For example many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums have a tradition that when a Nazi or Hitler comparison is made the thread is finished and whoever made the comparison loses whatever debate is in progress 13 This idea is itself sometimes mistakenly referred to as Godwin s law 14 Godwin rejects the idea that whoever invokes Godwin s law has lost the argument and suggests that applied appropriately the rule should function less as a conversation ender and more as a conversation starter 15 In an interview with Time Magazine Godwin said that making comparisons to Hitler would actually be appropriate under the right circumstances 16 I urge people to develop enough perspective to do it thoughtfully If you think the comparison is valid and you ve given it some thought do it All I ask you to do is think about the human beings capable of acting very badly We have to keep the magnitude of those events in mind and not be glib Our society needs to be more humane more civilized and to grow up In August 2017 while commenting on the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville Virginia Godwin himself endorsed and encouraged social media users to compare its alt right participants to Nazis 17 18 Godwin has denied the need to update or amend the rule in June 2018 he wrote in an opinion piece for the Los Angeles Times It still serves us as a tool to recognize specious comparisons to Nazism but also by contrast to recognize comparisons that aren t 15 See also edit nbsp Internet portal Association fallacy Goebbels gap List of eponymous laws Nazi analogies Poe s law Reductio ad Hitlerum Straw man Thought terminating clicheReferences edit a b c Godwin Mike October 1 1994 Meme Counter meme Wired Vol 2 no 10 Retrieved March 24 2006 a b Godwin Mike January 12 1995 Godwin s law of Hitler Analogies and Corollaries Net Culture Humor archive section w2 EFF org Electronic Frontier Foundation Archived from the original on August 29 2012 Retrieved June 19 2012 Godwin Mike August 18 1991 Re Nazis was Re Card s Article on Homosexuality Newsgroup rec arts sf lovers Usenet 1991Aug18 215029 19421 eff org McFarlane Andrew July 14 2010 Is it ever OK to call someone a Nazi BBC News Magazine Retrieved August 4 2010 Fishman Aleisa Godwin Mike September 1 2011 Interview with Mike Godwin Voices on Antisemitism Podcast United States Holocaust Memorial Museum Archived from the original on May 20 2014 Goldacre Ben September 16 2010 Pope aligns atheists with Nazis Bizarre Transcript here bengoldacre secondary blog Archived from the original on March 25 2013 Stanley Timothy March 6 2014 Hillary Putin s no Hitler Opinion department CNN Retrieved March 6 2014 Godwin s law Oxford English Dictionary Oxford University Press Retrieved February 27 2013 Weigel David July 14 2005 Hands Off Hitler It s time to repeal Godwin s Law Reason Archived from the original on July 15 2009 I Seem to Be a Verb 18 Years of Godwin s Law Jewcy com April 30 2008 Archived from the original on January 15 2013 Retrieved April 16 2010 Harrison Stephen January 24 2022 Has Godwin s Law the Rule of Nazi Comparisons Been Disproved Slate Retrieved April 23 2022 Fariello Gabriele Jemielniak Dariusz Sulkowski Adam December 12 2021 Does Godwin s law rule of Nazi analogies apply in observable reality An empirical study of selected words in 199 million Reddit posts New Media amp Society 26 Sage Publishing 389 404 doi 10 1177 14614448211062070 ISSN 1461 4448 S2CID 245035602 Chivers Tom October 23 2009 Internet rules and laws The top 10 from Godwin to Poe The Daily Telegraph London Datta N June 20 2017 Godwin s Law How Adolf Hitler Is Mathematically Connected To Internet Forum Discussions Trove 42 Retrieved February 13 2024 a b Godwin Mike June 24 2018 Op Ed Do we need to update Godwin s Law about the probability of comparison to Nazis Los Angeles Times Retrieved July 24 2020 Hoffman Ashley June 29 2017 Should You Call Someone Hitler Here s What the Man Behind Godwin s Law Thinks Time Retrieved February 13 2024 Gilbert Alexandre August 17 2017 Godwin s Law amp the Nazi Cosplay Hobbiysts The Times of Israel Mandelbaum Ryan F August 13 2017 Godwin of Godwin s Law By All Means Compare These Shitheads to the Nazis Gizmodo Retrieved December 26 2023 Further reading editAnderson Nate September 1 2011 No Nazi comparisons Sounds like something Hitler would say Ars Technica Retrieved September 1 2011 External links edit nbsp Look up godwin s law in Wiktionary the free dictionary Listen to this article 5 minutes source source nbsp This audio file was created from a revision of this article dated 1 July 2005 2005 07 01 and does not reflect subsequent edits Audio help More spoken articles Skirvin Tim September 15 1999 How to post about Nazis and get away with it The Godwin s law FAQ Skirv s Wiki Archived from the original on October 11 1999 Sietzman Michael December 6 2017 2009 My Nazi Can Beat Up Your Nazi Huffington Post Amira Dan Godwin Mike March 8 2013 Mike Godwin on Godwin s Law Whether Nazi Comparisons Have Gotten Worse and Being Compared to Hitler by His Daughter Intelligencer department New York Retrieved from https en wikipedia org w index php title Godwin 27s law amp oldid 1216026917, wikipedia, wiki, book, books, library,

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